EAT THE RICH .. starve a nation
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About the author ..
About the author? I'm not an author. I'm a trouble maker. I just said it because I've seen it on books and stuff and it sounded cool. Anyway .. about me .. I've said many times I don't like labels. For some reason when it comes to politics, it seems it's a foregone conclusion that you must have one. Okay, if I must have a label make it that of a conservative. I think the government should be small, and I believe lower taxes create fertile ground for business growth. I believe that regulations are necessary in order to offset greed, but I think that certain people have gotten way too carried away with them,and are choking the life out of small start up companies, while making it impossible for large companies to stay competitive working on American soil. When it comes to lending a hand to those who need help, I believe in lending a hand. I don't believe in giving money away to people who are able-bodied and won't take a job just because it's below the pay grade that there used to. I went from a job that paid $172,000 a year to being a guy with a paint brush and painting houses. Two years later I had the second largest painting company in the state of Arizona. People are capable of doing great things when put position to do them. Unfortunately were becoming a nation that is weakening the spirit and backbone of its people, by looking for ways to help them fail.
Maybe labels wouldn't be so bad if the people wearing the labels didn't feel that people wearing different labels had no value. Everyone has value. I'm interested in hearing what someone has to say regardless of label if they have an open mind and good manners. While I'm on the subject,we have a problem in this country of people not listening to one another. I think it's not because of what the other person is saying, but rather how they're saying it. Negotiating is a lost art. Hell, showing respect and using good manners seems to be a thing of the past for that matter. Manners are a way of showing respect, and maybe that's why they been thrown out the window together. It'd be real sweet if we ccould change that. Anyone listening out there??
Eating the rich, let's see how it taste!
There seems to be a lot of people in this country who think that rich people are the source of our problems. They think that rich people are greedy and don't pay enough taxes. I don't happen to agree with them. Yes, some got rich by being greedy, but honestly, most people got rich by getting up earlier and out working the other guy. With the never-ending job of quenching their stockholders thirst, corporate fat cats sometimes do things they wouldn't feel comfortable telling their Sunday morning pastor about, and I'm never going to deny that. But penalizing a businessman can be a double edged sword. Now here's one of the places where those labels become very uncomfortable for me. Watching CEOs paying themselves multi-million-dollar bonuses after getting bailed out by the taxpayers .. because they didn't know how to run a business in the first place makes me crazy. That's piss poor management on the part of the government under both Bush and Obama's watch. Having said that, when it comes to penalizing the business engine of our country, the government walks a fine line here, and can easily find themselves biting the hand that feeds them. I'm just saying you got to be careful ..
How much is 1 trillion dollars?
If you laid $100 bills on top of one another tightly bound, you would have a stack of bills 60 miles high when you reached the trillion dollar mark. We're working with a $3.6 trillion budget and we're in debt 14 trillion dollars. That 14 trillion dollars would give you a stack of $100 bills 840 miles high. Let me put it another way. Every man woman and child living in this country is in debt over $46,000 above and beyond their personal debt, and that debt is growing 24 hours a day, seven days a week. At the rate we're going, my grand kids will be a million in the hole before they get their first car. Can't happen.
The Rich And The Evil?
Before I begin this next part, I want to plug my beloved political non-profit The Housefire Project. Come visit us, and sign up. "Saving a nation is a very cool thing to do."
http://www.housefireproject.com/
If rich people suck, and are the financial culprits that got us into this mess, we're going after their ass, and we're on a 14 trillion dollar mission. That's a lot of money and the very least we can settle for is covering the budget. (a mere 3.6 trillion) Ready? I'm freaking stoked! Let's get started!
Let's start by going after the two heavy weight champions of evil. that would be Walmart and Exxon Mobile. Let's confiscate all their combined 2010 profits, and see where that puts us. Ummmm .. that gives is a whopping 34 billion dollars. Not nearly as impressive as I'd hoped.
Let's get serious now. We're not making any headway so far. To hell with it. Let's go take all the profit, every single dime, from all the Fortune 500 companies in the U.S.. That should do it! Let's do a little Googling .. Okay, here we go .. $357 Billion! Now we're hitting pay dirt, but we're a long way from home. Lets see. Where do we go now? I got it!
We'll take all the salaries paid out from the NFL, NBA, NHL, Major League baseball, the PGA, and NASCAR. Those folks make some righteous bucks, and if they really love their country, they shouldn't mind losing a years worth of salaries. Google, google .. Here it is. $5 Billion. Folks, this isn't working. We're spending that much every day. Damn it.
Look, we're making those people down at at the Wall Street Occupy thing pretty happy I imagine, but we're still not getting the job done here. Let's take another shot at some of those rich people. We're going to go out to California and evict all those millionaires from their homes in Beverly Hills, and sell them. Okay those cribs are going for about $2 million a piece. Let's see now .. That's another $30 billion! Now this ain't exactly chicken feed, but we've still got a long long way to go if we want to start solving our problems.
Screw it. I'm tired of messing around. We're going to take all the billionaires in United States and kill them all. You heard me. Were going to kill it each and every one of them and take their money. Now we're getting somewhere! According to uncle Google that will get us another $2.2 trillion dollars! Wait a minute. What's that? Estate tax? Uncle Google, how much will we get once we pay that? Did I hear you right, $650 billion? Well, that ain't chump change but were still mighty short.
I'm not feeling too good. I just robed professional sports, put Walmart and Exxon out of business, taken all the profits from all the Fortune 500 companies and bankrupted them, committed the mass murder of very rich person in the United States, taken all their money, and I still haven't paid the bills. We've got a whopping $1,076,000,000,000. That's not even a third of our budget. I'm bummed, and I'm starting to think that taking all the rich guys money may not be the way to go. I mean, we've got almost that much going out every year through fraud waste and abuse. That just doesn't seem right to me.
Could it be that the real problem is that our government doesn't know how to handle the money that we give them in the first place? Could that be it? I don't know. Maybe we will have to raise taxes. Maybe we will have to make the rich guys pay more. But before we do that, maybe we ought to hold our government accountable for handling our money better. See, rich guys got rich because they know how to handle money, and they're not going to be real happy about having to hand out more money to a government that doesn't have a clue on how to spend it. I mean is that crazy talk or what? I may be the coolest guy on the hub pages, but I'm dang sure not the smartest.
Obviously we can't let corporations go around and rape us, but we can't disrespect them either. We've got a regulate them enough so that they don't go crazy on us, but we have to give them fertile soil to become profitable and competitive in. If you start throwing chains around them, regulating them into the mud,while taxing them as you see fit, they have and they will go someplace else to play. Anyone stupid enough to think that they need us and we don't need them needs to take a few days off, go fishing, and think things over a little bit. We need rich people just as much as they need us, and while we can't just sit around and let them rip us off, we should give them the respect that they deserve. Our government hasn't negotiated a foreign trade deal that works in our favor since Moby Dick was a guppy. We've got a lot of work to do, and this is just one man's opinion, but I think we need to start looking at our real problems, and not focus so much of our attention on the rich folks. I'm not saying let them run wild. I'm just saying let's keep things in perspective. Okay, I'm going to shut up now. Right or wrong, I think I've made my point. If you've read this entire blog without skimming,you're a class act and get the infamous "Gold No Pants Star Of Approval!"
Notice to commenters: I welcome your comments, but stay on subject. I do not want to hear any insulting remarks about left-wing this and right wing that. Say what you think you need to say. It's important and I wanna hear it, but say it like you are saying it to your mother. No two-page childish arguments allowed. I don't want to waste my time and I know you don't want to waste your time spinning our wheels with things that don't get us anywhere. That being said ..
Say your prayers, eat all your veggies, smile constantly, and tell someone you love them!
tmwnp
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Thanks Josak,
We've got a lot of work to do, and pissing off rich people ain't going to get it done. Thanks for the read and the comment!
jim
Jim...
I once had a theory (purely hypothetical) where every THIRD rich guy gets thrown against the wall, shot, and gets his property appropriated by the...uh...me.
You have raised some interesting points as always my friend.
Who caused the greatest economic downturn of the planet since the Great Depression?
I'm pretty sure it wasn't twenty poor guys sitting in a room smoking cigars. And although I certainly can't prove it, I think twenty rich guys sitting in a room smoking cigars is a far more likely answer to the above question.
That, the obscene bonuses you spoke of, the rewarding of bad decisions...these are the things that make rich people a menu item.
Now...the government. My old boss had a sign above his desk that read, "You will never make more money until you learn how to handle the money you have." Until now, I just assumed it was a coy way of telling me to not ask for a raise... The Government could use that sign hanging somewhere...
You seem back in the swing of things my friend. Good seeing you and excellent hub!
Thomas
I do believe it's evil to make 52 mil a year, and lay off people to do it.
My heart also bleeds for a man working 2 jobs to live a sub-par life.
Those who benefitted from our county's down-fall should be the ones to pay for it's renewal.
There used to be such a thing as conscience. It doesn't seem to exist anymore!
Great writing. It's smart, truthful and loaded with common sense. I don't care what side of the aisle you are on, if you don't get what Jim wrote then you won't get anywhere. Up useful and awesome.
Jim - The problem isn't the people or companies that are making a profit. They are paying 40% of all the income tax paid in this 1% group that people like to malign. That's what a business is supposed to do. The problem is the federal government spending more money than it takes in. If a business does that it goes belly up. If the government continues to do this then what will happen? I think it's about to.
The Frog
I said my prayer, sat my plate down beside me that holds my b.l.t (l is for veggie), began reading this hub now i am smiling, near chuckling, and i will tell you, I am in love.
I love this hub. It is superb. Right on target. Funny as hell is said to be hot and as truthful as an angel.
It is staggering at the amounts this country spends on sports.
There is money here. More than enough as you have pointed out. The problem lies with, as you said, regulations and mis-management or ill managed tactics.
In 88 I bought a business, a fairly small one, and my husband and I operated it. We went from a client list of 30 to one around 125. It was at times hard work. Long hours. THEN came a round of new regulations. Although it didn't affect us personally, the clients we had were forced to close as they could not afford to put into place the new "things" of the new regulations. Our client list decreased to around the 65-75 mark within a year.
Another thing, the work we did was such that the insurance companies could get their hand into it, but, when I explained to the customer that they could SAVE money by not using the insurance company they were shocked. Some of course didn't understand this and still ran the claim through the ins co. Here was the deal. Certain insurance companies called me at least 3 times a year trying to persuade me to sign up with them. I declined their invitation. Oh, I could have made a ton of money, but, one of those insurance companies was one I WAS insured with. I suddenly seen why my premiums were so high. Here is a brief description of their plan. They would pay me x amount for the part, x amount for supplies used to install the part and x amount for labor to install the part. As we were retail and commercial, we offered both retail pricing and commercial pricing. Of course, retail being slightly higher. WITHOUT running a claim through the ins co, we made a total of 75 dollars on the part we installed. If we had run it through the ins co, we would have made, 75 on part, 30 on supplies, and another 75 to install the part. How generous of these folks? Some called me crazy. It just seemed a rip off. The customer usually had a 100 deductible, some were higher, and the usual cost of the part installed was around 125 had the customer used his insurance, he would have saved 25 yes, but, then for using the insurance, you got it. His premium would have gone up.
A fair solution, is to set a tax percentage. Say 20%. All across the board, everybody in business pays this 20% tax. No, that is not in addition to any tax already here, it is just a leveling of the one currently in use. Then, by crackie, if the good ole boys can't balance the budget, (which is too dang high to start with), then, they can take a cut in pay. Or let someone who can do it, do it. Simple, easy.
Again, thank you for the bright start this morning. I only thought it was gonna be boring.
hahaha, preach it! I love this hub!
Jim, this was a very interesting approach to this subject. This "Kill the rich and take all their money" idea is quite popular today. It is obvious little or no common sense is involved in the decision making process of those who support this theory.
Suppose we punish a cattle rancher by confiscating and selling all his bulls. Yep, we would make some instant cash, but after a period of time he would have no more cattle and would be out of business. That nice steak dinner most of us enjoy on occasion would be just a fond memory.
Or we do the same to a Chicken Ranch, take all his roosters and sell them for instant cash. Guess what, pretty soon he would be out of hens and be out of business. We would no longer have fried chicken on our tables.
For those who are so obsessed with punishing the so called rich, I can only say "Be careful what you wish for, it could come true."
Jim you got me all fired up this morning!!
For some reason, I keep hearing these words by JFK.
ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country...
too many now days have that the other way around.
the best thing we can do for our country is honor our Constitution...
We the people....need to "Limit our Government"...the first and most basic principle of that document.
as you stated "real problem is that our government doesn't know how to handle the money that we give them"...part of that reason is that our government has just plain and simple, gotten TOO big.
I also think your words "We've got a regulate them enough so that they don't go crazy on us, but we have to give them fertile soil to become profitable and competitive in."
Is spot on!
Brother, you have GOT to keep on preachin...
This is a very effective hub....you break it down to simple terms to explain this mess...
Your bro,
Chris
"It'd be real sweet if we ccould change that. Anyone listening out there??"
I was. You got a "ccould" past spell check some how.
Hey. I'm an artist. I need rich people, believe me. Benjamin Franklin said something along the lines of . . . you will never eliminate the poor by getting rid of the rich.
I am working with some young men. They aren't interested in this kind of talk. They told me that China can have all of those jobs, because they suck anyway. They have traveled around. They like the way it is done in Coasta Rica more. Outside of the cities, the Indigenous people pull together to make regional products in workshops instead of large factories. They make clothing and all sorts of stuff, even solar panels. The Native people share the wealth more equitably. They live in traditional houses with solar and wind. They watch soccer on TV and go to the fridge for a Coca Cola.
Anyway. They would like to see that regional approach in manufacturing and distribution. If a product generates global appeal, you don't make that many more, you raise the price outside of your regional market.
Prickly Pear cactus juice for sale. There is only so much.
Thomas,
Thanks for coming by my brother from the land of sin and one-time riches. I love it when you talk dude. You make me smarter. Yeah, I don't imagine a couple of dumb poverty-stricken dudes sitting in a room got much of anything done with the exception of possibly planning a bank robbery. Wait a minute .. I think the same thing can be said for a couple of rich smart guys sitting around! Anyway ..
Yeah I'm back in the captains chair. I took some time off because my hub score started dropping every time I published a new hub. It became obvious to me that my limited writing skills were going backwards. The first week I didn't publish a hub, my hub score went up two points. But then it slid back down, so what the hell? I don't write things about how smart I think my side is and how dumb the other side is. I write about how dumb both sides are. With the election coming up in November, everyone is zeroed in on the Republican nomination, and who will match up best against Obama etc.
As you know, I'm very much against an Obama second term. I know you feel differently, and believe me brother, you've got all my respect. Everyone on my side is worried about how much Obama has to spend, and which one of our mutts would match up against him best. I wrote what I thought was a great hub on this subject. I pointed out that candidates don't win elections. Voters win elections, and the candidate is just the prize. I pointed out that if they really, really a wanted to beat Obama, that we need to focus on getting conservative voters to the voting booth in droves instead of worrying about Mr. Obama. I also pointed out that insulting your opponent only makes them stronger, and and that we should show our liberal brothers and sisters the respect that we'd like to have from them. Apparently the whole thing completely went over everyone's head or under their feet, as the comments section started filling up with the same old left-wing this, and right wing that crap. By em books and what do they do? They eat the freaking pages.
Thanks for coming by my friend and taking the time to read my crazy no pants stuff. You is beautiful dude!
Jim
lovemychris,
Thanks for coming by. I mean that. We've had our differences in the past, and will probably never agree on a whole lot, but at least we both want what's best for this country, even though we may not agree on how to get it. We may not even agree on who sucks and who doesn't, but we both agree that people who suck .. suck.
Jim
Little Sister With Giant Brain,
With an endorsement like that from you, I'm taking the week off. It doesn't get much better than that, and I'm guessing I'd better quit while I'm ahead!
See you at the Inn!
Jim
Frog,
Yep, that's pretty much what I was trying to say pal. Glad you stopped by. I'll be looking forward to reading what you have to say today also. Once again, it's good to have you back Jim.
Jim
mom,
Thank you for laying out such a detailed and well thought out comment. Also, thank you for the kind words of support. You've been down the same road in business that I've been down, and you understand the problem well. There ain't nothing like walking through fire to know how hot it is. My wife manages the household budget, and that makes her way more qualified than the dudes in suits up there in Washington for running the economy. You and I know that's not a black-and-white world we live in, it's a red and black world that we live in. We know what it takes to profit and we know what it takes to go bankrupt. That makes watching this whole mess unfold very hard to watch.
Thanks so much for coming by and taking the time to read, think, and make such a great comment.
Jim
American romance,
Thanks for coming by my friend and patriot. You know what's going on dude, and I appreciate all the hard work you put into your beliefs. We share the vast majority of the same beliefs.
Jim
Mike,
As always my friend, you can say in 10 words what it takes me 1000 words to say. You are analogies are correct, and we'll all be looking forward to reading a new hub from you in the very near future. I for one miss your hubs pal.
Jim
Chris,
You're my huckleberry dude. I'm not sure what that means, but it sounded really cool when Doc Holiday said it in the movie Tombstone, so I thought I'd lay it out there.
Chris, when you're fired up, I'm fired up, and simple is the only road I travel. I believe that you can add to, but never take away from the basics, and that getting away from the basics leads to failure. Even if I didn't feel this way, I'd always stay close to the basics anyway because my attention span or lack of memory dictates that I do so. (Laughing)
You've got a great attitude my Hoosier friend. Did I spell Hoosier right? Anyway, I dig you bro! Stay with me!
Jim
I'm laughing my butt off Jim...........I agree, that is one of the greatest lines in Cinema history..."I'll be your huckleberr!".......I say, "failure is not an option".........(cuz that is another cool line"
You are on a roll bro..........keep it going!
I dig you too!
and I am with you all the way!
Curry,
The Costa Rica thing is awesome. When you stop and think about it, that's how we started out in America. It works. Costa Rica is a very cool place. Mike (old poolman) has a sister who is developing a large area in Costa Rica, and he gets down there quite a bit. If the conservatives don't find their way to the Oval Office, he's talking about spending a whole lot of time there. I am seriously considering joining him, and doing a lot of Corona time on the beach.
Jim
Chris,
Hey man, you know I've had the opportunity to actually meet a few of my hub friends face-to-face, and there are some of us who yak on the phone to each other all the time. I'm not sure where you're at in Indiana, but if it's somewhere close to the center or western part of the state, I drive over to meet you the next time I was in Chicago. Yea dude, you're that cool. If you ever find your way out in these parts, you have to give me a heads-up. Mike lives just down the road, and we'd both love to sit around the campfire swapping war stories and solving the world's problems with you. Have a great day my brother!
Jim
There's only three hundred million or so people in the U.S. Give us all a million dollars and bring some foreigners to do the work dern it... three hundred million isn't a blip in the budget or to business profits... once we're all rich we won't need any government services... oh I know... it will set off inflation.... set prices going insane.. but.. there's got to be a way... it's such a tiny amount compared to what's floating around out there out of reach.
Bob
Yes, the government doesn't know how to handle the money they have (or don't have). These men aren't business men. Most probably never had to really have a budget before they landed a position in our government.
One problem with rich people that I've experienced is that they become detached from the workings of their business. SOmeone who wants to be rich will usually have a goal of retiring sooner than later and becoming just a name in their business, not a permanent fixture or part of their business- that's what they have their "people" do. They hire others to run the aspects of the business they used to do. Most don't hire well. I can tell you that from experience again. Even working in restaurant business, the owner comes into his restaurants once a quarter (maybe) and says "hi" then "bye". He has no idea what's going on in his own business. As a waitress I know more than he does. Then the management hired are the guys (or gals) who couldn't quite get the hang of waitressing or cooking so 'hell, put them in a management position'. They're idiots. They hide away in their offices and have no idea what's going on in the business. So now you have a detached owner and clueless management. That's just a low level type of business but I bet you it goes on just as often in big business.
I agree that we need rich people as much as they need us. Someone told me that we need garbage men, someone to pick up our garbage, someone to clean our dirty dishes at a restaurant so not everyone can be financially equal (rich), or should be. We will always have a poor, low, middle, etc classes. People who want everyone to be wealthy or have access to wealth are living in dreamland.
Bob,
Thanks for coming by my friend. There's just one problem with giving everybody 1 million bucks. You know the old saying, "by em books, and all they do is eat the pages" I'm afraid that if we gave everybody 1 million bucks, we'd end up in the same place down the road. I believe that there is a reason why rich people are rich and poor people are poor. Some of the wealthy people inherited that wealth, but there is a statistic, I can't remember where I put it, that shows the great percentage of wealthy people earned their wealth. Getting wealth has its own set of problems and keeping that wealth creates a whole new set of problems. Everyone's unique and have their own level of responsibility that they're comfortable with. If you ask them, most people would say that they love to have $1 million. Very few of them would want the responsibility that goes along with having $1 million though. That's been my experience my friend. For reasons that I can go into here, I've spent a lot of time on the streets in San Diego and Phoenix. I know who's on the streets, and I know why they're there. I believe that the people who think they're there not by choice, have good hearts but have it wrong. Yes many of them are alcoholics and drug users, in fact most of them are. The reason they're on the street goes deeper than the alcohol they drink and the drugs they do. Solving their problem is much more difficult than just giving them money. You didn't ask for all this my friend (laughing) but it's a tender subject for me.
Hey, thanks for coming by and taking the time. You always make me think, and that's always a good thing. Glad I know you dude!
Jim
Laura,
My long-lost sister! You make a lot of sense. You always make a lot of sense. You do a good job of giving a view at street level. I've always love that about you.
Speaking of dreamland .. You know from your background in psychology that in times of hopelessness and anxiety, people have a tendency to take a vacation to the land of dreams. We're living in some extremely challenging times. Where in unchartered waters and people are, quite frankly, scared. That's why you see the huge division this country is experiencing. Scared was a year and a half ago for me, now I'm pissed. As people get tired of being afraid, they'll get pissed too. Then people will focus on the challenge of being in un-chartered waters, and forget their fears. It's called a smart revolution my child. It's good, it's exciting, and you're going to be a part of it.
Once again, give me a buzz or a nice long letter when you and get me updated when you have the opportunity. I know how the minimizing thing works, and I know how necessary it is, but you know how much I hate it. (Laughing)
Jim
AR,
The greatest Line from a movie is " I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass, and I am all out of bubblegum".
MWNP,
The problem is that people put all the blame on the top 1% and expect them to pay for the botttom 25% that refuse to work and milk every entitlement program to death. We have hit hard time because we cannot afford to pay this debt we have incurred. Time has come to tighten the belts of congressional spending, purge the waste from entitlement programs and get them back to work
Jack Abramoff has written a book. He's a reformed and repentant man.
"Lobbying and Corruption in Politics".
Deserves a read.
And I will really consider leaving if we get R's across the board...not again, EVER.
That is not a country I want to live in.
My America is on thin threads.
A LOT is riding on this election.
Oh, I do like this. I think you hit the nail right on the head in the beginning. We have too many not pulling their weight. I agree with lending a helping hand but there comes a point where a helping hand becomes a hindrance to growth.
I teach special needs students and I love them. They and their regular education peers are all suffering from something the education world doesn't like to speak of which is a sense of learned helplessness that we, the teachers and parents, instilled in them. For instance, if you get a student that has a hard time learning to read, if you want to keep your job, you had better start providing some modifications such as visually supported print. Well, this sounds great. It's not! What happens is that yes, the student in question gets the material with visual help and passes testing. Said student also begins to learn that if things get hard someone will come along and make them easier. This gets repeated a hundred times a day every day for years. It's destroying our youth. Everyone finds some things hard and we all need the grit to fight through the hard things.
America, in my opinion, suffers to a large degree from the same sense of learned helplessness. Not everyone, but too much of our nation thinks some where deep down that the government is there to make their lives easier. Every time the government does so those people lose some of their own power until not too much later they have none left and wonder what the hell happened. Life is not easy nor should it be. The real world doesn't make modifications.
As for the part about our officials not knowing how to manage our money, I can't agree. I think they know exactly what they are doing. They know how much this will hurt us all. The children I work with can, and do budget better. I know. I grade their work. These people are not dumb. Whether they keep us in a growing debt out of fear of not being re-elected or for some darker purpose that we best all start thinking about is irrelevant. What matters is that they must be stopped before it is too late, assuming we have not already past that point. This is our money, it’s our country, and it’s our future. We best get a handle on them for they are, excuse the language, pissing it away at light speed.
Thank you for such good points, logic and common sense, which is highly uncommon today. I’m sorry for taking up so much space but you got me thinking. God bless you!
The thing about fairness is key. You all cited the money that athletes and celebrities make. But here's the thing: They pay taxes! They always say that 50% goes right off the top.
However, a study just released found that the wealthiest 200 corporations paid tax at 17%....some paid none, GE got a rebate! Romney pays at 14% by guesstimate....
So therein lies the difference.
Wealth vs labor. Investments, versus sweat and blood. Money off money versus working for it.
It's a fairness issue, and this system is rigged for the top.
American romance,
Right on brother. Let me put it simply. We're turning Americans into a bunch of pussies and going bankrupt while we do it. We've got a long way to go and a short time to get there, but we can do it. We WILL do it.
Jim
lovemychriss,
I'll have to check out that book, the title looks very interesting. This hub isn't about the election, so I won't get into that here. We obviously disagree on what's best for this country, but that's what makes the world go around. Were at a time when we desperately need a strong leader, and honorable men and women in Congress to back him or her up. Unfortunately, these characters are absent from both sides in my opinion. There are some young folks on both sides who got the right idea, but there to Junior to have an impact right now. Thanks for coming by again girl.
Jim
You know you really hit the nail on the head. The Government is sinking waste deep in its own... issues. All the people out there that say take it from blah blah blah are just naive and you make that point very clear with your statistics. Also, although the Gov needs to learn how to spend better it is an issue that even people experience just in smaller degrees. The person who is in debt can barely pay their bills every month and ends up charging everything. Then they take out another loan/credit card/ or refinance something to get more money which puts them further in debt and they continue to struggle to pay their bills. It is a vicious cycle that few ever make it out of. Although it is very possible to climb out of that hole and the United States can put itself on the right track, but there is no miracle cure. The worst part is that so many people want so much out of our Government that we have spread ourselves too thin to begin with. So where do they cut? How do they begin to get on the right track? Obviously our government has done things that many people do not approve of, but at the same point other people do approve of it. How can you make the whole country happy when we are divided so? Furthermore, as you said about biting the hand that feeds you, some cuts just can't be made (which many people do not realize) because of certain benefits, money issues, etc. My goodness you have almost made me interested in Government and I need to stop rambling! lol. I could probably write a whole paper off of the information you have provided and you did such an excellent job doing it! I could continue to praise it, but you obviously understand everything I've been saying. So great job :-)
poetvix,
You just brought up some stuff that's so good I don't know where to begin. When I was in about the third grade I was diagnosed with hyperactivity, which they now call attention deficit disorder as you know. The doctor explained to my mother that although I was smart, I would probably have a hard time pulling the grades as I went further in school without medication. My mother told the doctor these words .. "Well my son is just going to have to figure something out because I'm not putting my son on dope. I couldn't afford to even if I wanted to. However,I want you and him both to understand that I can't and won't tolerate bad grades. Like I said, he's just have to figure it out". Some people may think that's hard, but I did figure something out. I dipped below a B three times throughout grade school, junior high and high school. The high school I went to was a college prep school, and it was tough. My mom never gave me the option of failing. My mother loved me with every ounce of her heart, but she knew that excuses lead to bankruptcy or prison. Result? I don't make excuses never, never, never and it's very difficult to sell me one.
No, I know these fruitcakes up in Washington aren't stupid, but they've been drawn very deeply into a game that's been played for a long, long time, and they've been playing it for so long, and they are so good at it, that they've managed to make the American people put their common sense to the side and play the game with them. I agree that they are anything but stupid, but they are so highly disconnected that they are almost completely dysfunctional as a governing body. People are waking up, and there is some young blood coming up through Congress, and I have confidence that we're going to pull this thing off. But I do believe we're going to see some hard times before we get to the good ones. Some people might think that's negative for me to say that, but it's true and it's not negative, it's exciting!
I sure do appreciate the visit. Your comments are well thought out and they come from the heart. That's good stuff. Positive thinking, positive results. Stay with me man!
Jim
lovemychris - I saw the 60 minutes show about Abramoff and also watched the movie Casino Jack. I suspect that is pretty factual information. It seems though that you believe the only politicians affected by lobbyists have the "R" in front of their name. I think they are equally guilty on both sides of the aisle.
Man, you make me laugh! Taking all that income- who does this but you? It puts things in perspective, doesn't it!
I don't know if you have been reading my hubs lately, but the one about the most reliable news programming taught me that we need both conservatives to watchdog government and liberals to watchdog business.
Why can't we asa country at least agree on that? The NFL has refs to keep players honest. What's wrong with having refs in a game with such extremely high stakes??
Go mom! I am officially now a fan of your very smart mother. My parent's were much the same and while when I was young I thought it was mean. I now thank God they were demanding of my best efforts.
I hope you are right about the young blood coming up. We sure need some. I hope they had parents like ours. I agree, things are going to get a lot worse before they begin to get better and we all better hang on tight. It's going to be a bumpy ride.
I can't understand average people crying for the wealthy while begrudging a safety net for the less fortunate. I will admit that there are those on the bottom rung who have learned to manipulate the system but it is not as deplorable as the wealthy who manipulate the Judicial, Legislative and the Executive branches of government by employing lobbyists, many of whom were a part of one of the mentioned branches,to use legalized bribary to influence regulations, legislation and policies that increase their profitability on the backs of taxpayers and consumers. This is how one reaches the status of too big to fail which flies in the face of capitalism.
I also want to address the misrepresentation of inheritance not being an integral part of wealth creation or continuance. There something known as "intergenerational mobility" which refers to the opportunities provided to the offspring of the wealthy. These opportunities whether it is in the form of money, credit, power or influence usually precedes parental death which most likely continues after parental death or has been securely established prior to the passing of their parents. Bill Gates Sr. was a very successful attorney which I am certain made it easier for Bull Gates Jr. to secure financial backing than a child from the Ghetto if by chance he were to come up with the same idea. The transfer of wealth that I hear so many mourners for the rich decry has already taken place but in reverse of the cryers' concerns. Wealth has been drawn from the middle class into the coffers (most likely foreign banks)of the top 1%. Wages and benefits and benefits haveeither been stagnant or reduced over the past forty years while profits and executive salaries and bonuses have skyrocketed which makes it even harder to understand where these groupies for the rich are coming from. Here is some info to conole the mouners of the wealthy: Most of the money spent for the welfare and food stamp programs find its way into the pockets of corporations
Joe,
Thanks for coming by and expressing yourself in such great detail. First, there are no groupies for the rich, at least in here, my friend. I respectfully disagree with you about inherited wealth. It's too late tonight, but I've got the numbers on that. Old money makes up a small percentage of the wealth in America today.
I have to say that I do take some exception to this notion that most rich people started out as a bunch of fat lazy rich kids who had everything given to him by their rich parents. I also have a problem with the notion that most people just don't have the opportunity to make it big in America because they've got a couple of strikes going against them. I came from poverty. I came from a broken home which is a blessing because I had drunkard for a dad with an awful mean streak in him. I was fortunate enough to have a mother that was as strong as any ten men. She taught me to be strong, own up to my mistakes, never make excuses, and never blame someone for what I couldn't do. So far I haven't made it to the big pond, but that little boy from the dusty side of Wichita Falls Texas has done pretty well making himself a big healthy fish in the small pond. Nothing has ever come easy for me, and I'm damn glad it didn't.
I read every word you said, and even though I don't agree with your line of thinking, I'm glad you think it. I see things a little differently. I've got an old saying that goes something like this. "If you want to control someone, given just what they need to get by. If you give them too much they'll walk away and go into business for themselves. If you don't give them anything they will revolt and change the world". I see a government that's turning Americans into a society of pussies who would like to have the government make the down payment on their home, help them with their utilities, pay for their children's schooling, and give my hand with that mortgage if they think the payments are a little too high. This wouldn't be so bad except for the fact that the government has no money. Yep, there's a hell of a lot more people without money than people with money, so they actually do have the power to make the government take as much money away from the people with money as they want and give it to them. That sucks my friend. that's not freedom. That's just a lack of class.
You talk about the evil corporations paying lobbyist to influence our politicians in their favor. I hate lobbyist too, and anti-lobbying is one of the initiatives of the Housefire Project. But before we put all the blame on those evil corporations, don't you think we are to say something to those freaking fat pigs that put their hand on a Bible and took an oath to serve us? Listen my friend, nobody put a gun to their head and made them take a bribe. Before going into business for myself I worked my way up the corporate ladder with the company that was the leader in its industry. Our competitor offered me a large sum of money to get them a copy of our procedure manuals. This came at a time when I was a young manager with a new family. It would've been easy for me to slip them on manual, but a real man doesn't do that. Sure, in life there is always going to be someone who will give you some nice easy money if you'll just put your morals to the side for a moment. But I don't respect people who do that, and if the money changes hands, I blamed the one who took it, not the one who gave it.
I respect your thinking, but I feel just as strongly about what I just said as you do about what you said.
Thank you for coming by and giving me your thoughts.
Jim
Joe never said evil as regards to corporations, you know! Why add that word and apply it to him?
People do that to me all the time too...if I say I don't like something, they'll respond with Oh, so you hate it!
Please stop doing that. It feels like a tactic to demonize the person you are debating with. Hyperbole to make that person look bad. It's dis-honest, IMO.
lovemychris,
Point well taken. The hate word is just programmed rhetoric. An adjective within a slogan I guess you could say. Like you, I feel very strongly about certain things, but I pride myself on being an individual, and there's nothing individual about that. Man, I'm glad you pointed that out. And you didn't even rub my face in it!.
Joe, you never used the word hate, and I apologize for indicating that you did. I just learned something big today.
Thank you LMC,
Jim
HOLY MACKERAL PEOPLE, I GOT A LITTLE OUTSIDE THE ROTATION SOMEHOW!
Old poolman
Storytellers
Poetvix
I'm coming!
Jim
old pool man,
You got that one right my friend. There's 20 of a-holes on both sides.
Jim
Storyteller,
I have not received one notice from the hub pages of you writing in a long time, and as I talk to people I'm not the only one that's having this problem. You're someone that I love to keep up on, and I would appreciate it if you would mail me a link when you publish. I know you've got a lot going on, but I would appreciate it just the same.
What you mentioned is an example of what I talk about in a general sense, but this is what's so cool about what you said. What's cool is your attitude. And attitude of the left and right working together to a comp or something. Man, that's what I'm talking about!
Once again, please send me a link, and if you're not getting notices from me, let me know. Thank you so much for coming by and dropping your thoughts kiddo. It's appreciated.
Jim
Things are different In "Costa" now, too, a little. It is good to go easy on the development. It is cheap enough to build there. Take the extra time and effort to make it blend with the environment. Oppulant American projects are falling out of favor. If you go there, remember the best life is the "Pura Vida!". How much is too much? Take what you need and leave the rest.
This is the Coasta Rican system applied elsewhere.
Regional approach - Alabama cotton growers sell directly to Alabama processors, who sell directly to small Alabama textile mills, who sell directly to Alabama clothes manufacturer who sell directly to local outlets. There is room for outside sales at every step, but region gets quota first, then the price goes up on outside sales. Now you can buy a tshirt that will look half decent in twenty years from Alabama again.
No CEO, much higher wages (employees share profits), less shipping . . . not publicly traded, some Yankees or Saudis could buy you out and replace you or move the operation to China.
I will be talking about this and other grass roots movements to affect change for the better in spite of crumby government.
Poetvix,
Girl, my mom would be a big fan years if she were still alive. You Texas gals, as I've said, are something truly very special. Tough as a nail and soft is a bunny.
I believe you have it exactly right. We're going to see some tough times before we get to the good ones. There's an old saying, "if you want to have a party, you got to pay the band". Well we've partying for a long time and that band is banging at the door wanting to get paid. They are going to bang harder and harder until someone's got the guts to open the door and let em in. This country has been living beyond its means for a long time. Like a family living off credit cards. Transferring the balance from one credit card to the other, and on and on. Sooner or later the money borrowed has to get paid. If that family is making $50,000 a year and living like they're making $100,000 a year, they're going to have to start living as though they're making $25,000 a year until they're caught up. Otherwise they're going to be chased by the bull until the bull finally catches up with them.
Girl, I said earlier. America is starting to wake up. You can see it, you can hear it, and you can feel it. Once that big dog gets fully awake, things are going to happen!
I love your participation in these things my friend. We all get smarter and stronger when people participate like this.
Jim
WDCurry,
You are absolutely correct. There are things we can learn from this country, and a few others for that matter. As I said, Mike's sister and her husband own over 10,000 acres down there and are buying more. They are down there about nine months out of the year I believe, and have developed some first-class communities. A lot of Americans are moving down there, and they're making money hand over fist. You gotta watch where you go and what you do down there, because petty theft is huge. Not many bank robberies and things like that, but it is a good place to get your wallet lifted or your car stolen, and the local police agencies don't do very much or aren't very effective. The roads are full of potholes and you have to be careful navigating a nice car down them. Make no mistake, it is Third World, but despite the aforementioned it is a beautiful relaxing place to live, and the American dollar still goes along long ways.
Thanks for coming by dude! We all get a little smarter with you stop by.
Jim
mythicalstorm273,
I don't know how I got so out of order on these comments, and I apologize for skipping over you. I just didn't see it. Yours was a beautiful comment. I know you're not a child, but you are young, and as they say "from the mouth of babes". As you get older it's important to listen to the young people, and it's a great thing when the younger people listen to the older people. Younger people remind older people of things they forgot they knew, and older people can give younger people new things to consider. I hope that you always stop and weigh in the comments sections of my hubs. You really are a breath of fresh air kiddo!
Jim
Jim, thanks for telling me. I have a message everytime I try to sign in claiming I do not exist. Wonder if they are related issues? I certainly do exist, lol!!! Guess I'd better ask the powers that be. My articles appear on my profile page, I believe. But maybe that's just me. Thanks again for the heads up!!
Yeah They have some good breaks with long mellow waves for old guys, too . . . or barrelling waves that are kind of easy to get into. You can get yourself killed at a couple of radical breaks if that is what you are into.
I know a guy from South Carolina, Henry C. who has been down there forever. He has built houses and liitle surf and fishing camps. He is popular with the locals, and they have a symbiotic relationship, so the petty theft is down around there. His houses, surf shacks, and villas blend right in, being open and traditionally inspired. He has hedged his bet with community development out of his own pocket. He created offshore tourism fishing as well as inshore and freshwater guide opportunities. They have Hatteras, and Bertrams now, and nice personal boats to fish and guide from.
That's how it is done. We can do it here. There needs to be relaxing of the definition in the line between investors, management and labor. More of a community approach. Like HubPages without forum frogs.
Before responding to u, manwithnopants I wanted to pass on a couple quotes. Especially th first because a lot of people who think that social programs are taking us into socialism often quote Jefferson. So I thought I might pass on some lines about coporate socialism that drags us into Fascism.
"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." Thomas Jefferson
=
"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavour to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed." Abraham Lincoln
Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of State and corporate power." Benito Mussolini.
Now, as well as not referring to corporations as evil or hating anyone or anything, I also never called anyones' children fat and lazy. Those are your words. I am sure, as it is no longer a late hour, that in the light of day you can search and produce the figures that you had, at one time or another, referring to inheritance or old money not being stimulus for creating wealth, so I will again explain "intergenerational mobility" because there are figures to show that by the time wealth is passed off as inheritance it has already had its influence on wealth creation and conitinuity. I am not going to list my accomplishments or hard times that I have overcome and define my success by the size of myself or the pond in which I swim. Because finacial aquatic adeptness is not a criteria by which I measure a person. If I am trapped in a burning structure the finacial pecking order of the firefighter who enters the burning building to save me has no significance. God bless you and your wealth and I hope your pond is filled with holy water but I am sure that your success story holds no inspiration for some kid in the ghetto who has no father and a mother who is a crackhead.
Your old saying about don't give someone to much as it may enable them to compete but give them enuf so they don't rebel and ruin your game says ome hell of a lot as well as describes as much. Also your approach toward bribary as not faulting the provider of bribes but prosecute those weak enuf to accept the bribes. Is like excusing drug pushers because drug users are evidently prone to addiction and the drug users are making the pushers break the law simply because they can't go on without using drugs. I as well as you welcome your right to your opinion as you do mine. And as you pointed out you do not agree with mine. My disagreement is not so much in you opinion as it is in your disjointed logic and the basing of your observations on your heroic flexibility that enables you to take up much more space in the pond than others who couldn't overcome their plight
storytellers,
Yes my dear you do exist and that means I exist too because were talking! Now that we know that, maybe we can fix the rest. At least that's a start anyway!
Jim
Curry,
Man, that all sounds cool. That's all the information I need to start a party. Let's all meet down there and rock out my man. I may not be able to spin a pipeline anymore, but I can still manhandle a six or seven footer!
Jim
Joe,
Okay, free enterprise has its drawbacks. Capitalism unfettered can and does create fertile ground for greed to grow. We all know that. Hold that thought for a moment.
I got in trouble for inferring that you hated corporations. I'm not real happy with you inferring that I'm bragging about what I've accomplished. Money has never met a whole lot to me. The challenge of making it can be intoxicating though. Yeah buddy, I'm one goal hitting mother, but considering the amount money I've made, I don't have what I should have to show for it. Yes I am proud that I have the guts to get busy and not sit around blaming everyone around me for what's not going right.
When I stop and think about it, who cares whether the rich people earned their money or inherited it. That has very little to do with the problems you seem to be having with our system. We'll just say that every rich guy out there inherited every dime they got and go from there. Fair enough?
I'm not real sure what you're trying to say about my "give somebody a little or give give somebody a lot" thing, so I'll let that go.
I no more said that you shouldn't fault the person bribing any more than you used the hate word. I find this very strange. On one hand you seem to think that were on the wrong system, on the other hand you don't seem to hold that system accountable for their end of the problem. We can't stop greed, but we can hold people in a position of leadership in our government accountable for doing their job, and not selling us out. I said in my article that corporations have to the regulated in order to keep them from going crazy. You just can't over regulate them or they'll make you suffer. This idea that people have about being able to reach into somebody's pocket and take out what they want just because they've got a lot in those pockets sounds a hell of a lot like communism to me. I'm not going to get hung up on that right now though.
You are obviously very upset with the control that big money gives people in this country. I'm not 100% tickled about that myself. So I'm going offer you an opportunity to help me out here. Instead of me debating you on what I kinda sorta THINK you're saying, why don't you just tell me and anybody that's reading this, what your plan would be to straighten this whole mess out. Would we end capitalism or just sterilize it so that it looks a whole lot like socialism? I'm sorry, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. I just have a hard time listening to someone articulate their perception of a problem without offering a solution. If someone doesn't have a solution, then they obviously can't be 100% certain that there's a problem. Nothing can be judged as bad unless you have something good to measure it by. So let's see what you got my man. Give me your plan.
Jim
jim - Got your message on my Solyndra Hub. Turns out I've been here. Look up.
The Frog
Sheeeit! Sorry bro .. must be a senior momment thing. :(
jim
JOE UPDATE .. According to Forbes it looks like 31% of millionaires in the United States are self made.
Jim
M w/nopants,
I want to apologize. I don't mean to diminish what you overcame or your success. You have every right to be proud of yourself. I just get upset when I hear that Neil Bortz attitude that people who fail had choices and made the wrong ones. That is such an oversimplification and it is not fair to wrap anyones life up in one sentence. I don't like comparisons. It would be like someone who beat cancer being critical of someone who didn't.
Now you have given me a task that would take a large group of honest intellectuals to accomplish and then it would take honest and intellectual men to ensure continuity. I can point out measures that bastardized capitalism. Until the1980s the nuts and bolts of the real economy was agriculture, manufacturing, mining and energy while the financial industry was about 10% of the GDP. During the 1980s the beginning of the creation of corporations to big to fail came to life with the hostile takeovers and the gobbling up of small businesses. Corporate America went after Ma and Pa businesses with a pac-man appetite stealing their assets, pension funds and benefit legacy money and then dragged what was left through bankruptcy court. Also at this time while Reagan was promoting supply side economics, corporations were given incentives to move the manufacturing industries overseas. Accompanying supply side economics was the tax breaks that supposedly stimulate the economy, increase revenues and create jobs which to this day hasn't worked. Even though cross-country empirical evidence does suggest an increase in tax revenues amid the decline in average tax rate, the pattern is confined to the episodes where average and marginal tax rates were very high, exceeding 70 percent threshold. Once tax rates were reduced, there is no evidence of higher revenue gains. Deregulation shared the same popularity as tax breaks and supply side economic, but was already proven dangerous in the early 70s when it spawned stagflation and played a major role in the 2008-09 collapse/bailout. In fact, deregulation of the banking sector, hailed by supply-side economics as the triumph of its own ideology, laid the basis for rigorous financial innovation by special investment vehicles and shadow banking institutions during the Bush Jr. administration. With the central origins of the 2008/2009 financial crisis subprime loans and highly-complex derivative schemes which enabled the exponential growth of over leveraging of the banking sector were most likely to be used by the least knowledgeable and the most risky borrowers. The only difference is that in normal circumstance, banks would recognize adverse selection by rationing credit to risky borrowers but the continuous obsession with home-ownership and the reluctance of the Federal Reserve to step in added to the turbulence of over leverage that turned into the most disastrous financial meltdown after the Great Depression. The elusive quest for higher growth and job creation after reducing tax rates for the wealthy, is an important lesson we should learned from the unfortunate turn of supply-side economics in favoring deregulation without acknowledging the possibility of systemic banking collapse and the consequences carried over by society at large. Bailing out the mess under the guise of too big to failis totally contrary to the precepts of capitalism. Bad economic choices and reckless investment should not be paid for by taxpayers any gains remain privatized and losses are socialized.
Though I may not be qualified to step into the oval office and set economic policy I feel adequately qualified to evaluate the economic consequences of the past 40 years and suggest ways to correct our failures. My number one suggestion would be specific laws pertaining to those in charge of regulatory agencies who fail to investigate and enforce the law as well as those who violate regulatory policy and these laws should carry stiff penalties and fines. Some jail time may have served as a deterrent to future abuses. There are many other laws that could have prevented this meltdown had they not been ignored. Much of this goes back to my original posting which for some reason you don't perceive as solutions. I am sure I mentioned anti-trust laws, regulations and manipulation of the three branches of government. Given all this information may not be enough to provide the solutions to our failed economy but it should stem the flow of tears for the wealthy and if it doesn't accomplish that much all I can say is that there is none so blind as those who will not see. And to address your 31% of millionaires being self made. It only means that the specific millionaire didn't inherit a million before he made a million but it doesn't discount the opportunity provided by family money. Go back one more time and read the part of my first post about “intergenerational opportunities”.
Impossible! Everyone needs a lot of people to become a millionaire. Unless it is inherited. And how many "self-made" millionaires had "special" help? Just by dint of being a white male has made it easier for you! If you needed a loan, a co-signer, etc.....takes connections, at least it did, and that has been denied to many. So--we gotta make our own. But the old boy network has held for centuries.
Thank God that vituperous vine is hanging low!
Actually--that's an interesting question.....how many of those "self-made" millionaires are white males?
How many of the 300,000 only mils in this country are white? Just curious to see if my theory holds water!
Wow. Any gains remain privatizes and losses are socialized! That has to be the most intensely perfect statement I have read in any article discussing the state of America in the 21st Century. Absolutely brilliant and horrifically accurate. Well done, Joe. Hire the man, Jim!
Joe,
To be honest, you got my attention. Joe, I've said it before and I'll say again. "I may be the coolest guy on the hub, but I dang sure ain't the smartest." Come at me with that explanation one more time, but pretend you're talking to a six-year-old this time. I accept your apology, and I hope you accept mine for lumping you into a category. I hate it when people do that to me, and I hate it more when I do it to people. I'm sure our ideologies don't line up real well, but as I may have said in this hub, negotiation is a lost art and so are manners. I've got a friend who is on my tiny unpaid staff at the Housefire Project who looks into the complicated details of the bills on the Senate floor and explains them to me in that "6 Year old way" in order to help me lead the organization in the direction I want to go. I'm a concept guy, and I definitely suck it details. His name is George and he writes here on the hub under the name Americanviews. You may know him. Love my Chris knows them well. Even though they fight like cats and dogs, I think they have a lot of respect for one another. Anyway, I'm going to ask him to weigh in on this conversation. You've opened up some good dialogue, I want to take this thing a step further. If we can come to an agreement, the idiots in Washington should be able to do it too.
Jim
lovemychriss,
I'm not going to get into a race thing here. That's for another discussion altogether.
Jim
Storyteller, Joe's a smart guy, and looking forward to more dialogue.
Jim
YES!!! I just adapted my newest hub with a link here, and quoted him. What amazing points. I changed the title of this hub, fyi.
Storyteller,
Joe is talking about the same thing I'm talking about I believe, and that's leaner but meaner regulations. I think most of us are together on what caused the economic bubble, and I think we should learn from history, but not be absorbed with it. I'm going to write a hub on the art of negotiating, which IS, I believe, my area of expertise.
In a nutshell, what I'm saying is that people can't just sit around thinking that they can dictate the future of big business. Whether a businessman inherits a bunch of money or not is inconsequential. I can tell you from personal experience that making money is easier than holding onto it. See, nothing stays the same. It either increases or decreases, so it is literally true, that if you're not making money you're losing money. So to be successful in business, you're always making money. Whether you inherited $10,000 $1, million, or $1 billion, you can stay at the table unless you know what you doing. I'm referring to big business as the "businessman". If you want something from a businessman, you've got to give that businessman something in return. Whether it's right or wrong, evil or whatever, big business is here to stay. If you want to regulate them on one end, you have to deregulate on the other end. Someone will come along and tear the last part of that last sentence apart, but it is what it is. I hope I'm getting my point across, because although I may not be quite as articulate as Joe, I'm dead on here. You DO Not dictate the shots with a businessman, you negotiate the shots, and those shots can be negotiated in your favor, but believe me, you've got to give that dog a bone. Money talks, and they got the money. The only way you're going to forcibly cut into their money stash, or change the spend it, is to not buy the products that these corporations put on the market. Don't buy a new car, don't buy a computer, a new dishwasher, a new cell phone, or any of the things that we've come accustomed to using. Then you can reach into their pockets. By the way, I'm not talking to you personally of course my friend. But there just seems to be a sort of irony as I watch people ir responsibly thinking that they can change the operating procedure of the the very corporations that supply them with the toys they don't think they can live without, by dictating and not negotiating.
Holy mackerel, these comments are turning into books!
Jim
Up yonder in that last comment, I meant to say CAN'T, not can when I was talking about staying at the table. (laughing)
Lol, Jim, certainly Ted Turner has whittled his fortune down, inherited or other. But that is his business, isn't it.
I am not even on the same page with you here. I was enamoured with Joe's comment on corporate socialism! Read my hub and you will see why I was thrilled by his observations and the one liner that made me swoon.
I am not turning my back on your negotiative wisdom, nor turning this into a competition of affections. I think he has articulated points of a different color- stuff new to me, perhaps old to you.
Affectionately, Barb
Interesting comments and hub. Personally I think a solution to the global mess would be to make a law from the North pole to the South pole - that "no one person can have a net worth of over 50 Million Dollars" (pro-rated to the date the law is implemented - so the value of a buck wont change the end result of the law)
That would eliminate greed and excessive monetary control, yet would allow "everyone" the right to build a heck of a good life.
Lets face it - Big Business rides on the backs of it's workers or customers - Big Government rides on the backs of the tax payers.
Greed and monetary controls (power tripping)are the problem... and it makes no difference what side the political arena you sit your butt on. Greed and Control are the problems.... take away that control and greed with my simple law of making a ceiling for what an individual can be worth, and that alone would see money being moved in a more equitable manner..... now - how do we implement such a "new way of law and looking at life?"
The universe is filled with abundance - it is time mankind gave up the struggle to survive and learn to love life and love living. Greed and Control - both contribute to making it a struggle for the majority.
My two cents!
Storyteller,
Jo's a Smart dude, but I'M cool. Don't ever forget that young lady! You can dig that intellectual stuff all you want to, but I refuse to share your affections with anyone! (Laughing)
jim
It's not about racism...it's about opportunity in America, and who gets it and who doesn't. Kind of like what Joe was saying I think....
Some people always say "Just pull yourself up"...but they forget that if you are black, or a woman, or gay, or not Christian, that has not always been the case!
There are road-blocks, and those who don't have them fail to see that they are there.
If you have been priveledged, you cannot understand until it happens to you.
And in America, the priveledged have been white Christian males.
Neil,
I can squeeze by on 50 million bro. Let's make that thing work! Best idea I've heard so far. (laughing)
jim
It's not a laughing matter - Greed and Control are truly the problem.... no matter what side the fence you sit on....
or were you laughing at the comment "you could get by on 50 million?" .... then -- I am laughing with you!
Cheers :-)
Jim you are too cute. Story
Love my Chris,
I know what you're saying, but I just don't believe it. I know that during different parts of this nation's history minorities have been held back. And I'm not saying you're completely wrong, but this I WILL tell you. I had more to overcome than a black kid coming out of the same ghetto when I was a pup. It's true. While I do understand that persons social surrounding can have a lot to do with what they expect out of life, the opportunity is there. There are and were grants available to blacks and other minorities that just weren't there for me. I know I come off sounding like I think I'm some kind of John Wayne super honcho, but I'm really not that way. I DID have the advantage of what I think was the most remarkable woman in the world for a mother, and if I was just half the man she raised, I'd be twice the man I am today. Perhaps that's an ace I had that a lot of other people didn't.
See when I get into a discussion like this one, there's a part of me that agrees with the person I'm disagreeing with, yet life's experience has taught me different. There's something else I know, and you can believe me or not, but I've found that if you give people an opportunity to take the path of least resistance, that they will usually take it. It's human nature, but unfortunately that path takes them to a place where they are the victim and not circumstance. Like me, you're not wrong, you're just not right. (Just my opinion)
Jim
Story,
:)
jim
Neil,
Of course greed is the problem my friend. You can't get away from greed unless you go back and undo the whole Garden of Eden thing. We're just having a discussion on how you can control that greed and stop the runaway train while still remaining a free market under capitalism. Your $50 million solution is cool but that would put an end to capitalism I'm afraid. You can't stop a hurricane, but you can control how much impact it has on your life with some intelligent planning. Probably a sorry analogy, but it's the only thing that came to my head right off the bat.
Jim
I do not believe for a minute it would put a stop to capitalism.... what is would do is add new values to the ones who achieve the net worth of 50 million... It would add a dimension to their lives. One of helping others fill their shoes - one of reaching out once they accomplished the max dollar amount of worth.... All who reach that level would be forced to consider "what's next" for themselves... and who's next to carry on their dream. My friend - if reaching 50 million net worth stopped capitalism.... we are in bigger trouble than you realize.
I have no fear at all that capitalism would end - rather an element of who should I share with would simply have to come into the picture!
Neil,
Maybe you got something, I dunno. It's a beautiful thought. I'm all for it, but I wouldn't begin to know how to get a deal like that swung. I'm going to have to give this some more thought tomorrow morning when I'm fresh pal. The football games are wearing me out tonight.
Jim
LMC,
WOW, I know you really do not beleive what you wrote about who has it easier. I am not going to get into race but look at the numbers. Obvioulsy more whites will become millionaires when you realize how many whites there are compared to blacks. It is just like driving at night. If you get into an accident the chances are more that it would be with somone who is DWI than say if you had the same accident at 8 in the morning.
You know I came form the Bronx projects. You know I was a firefighter. WHat most do not know, when I took the test, there were over 60,000 people. Only the top 20,000 moved on to the physical agility test. This was for a list that ths city would hire from. There would be 2,000 names on that list and the list would last for four years. Under a court order, 1,500 of those jobs were gauranteed to woman and minorities. Do you think Whites had a fair shot at the job? we all would take the same test( except woman, they were given an easier PAT test)Yet we all did not have the same oppurtunity for the job.
I have also talked about my other jobs in construction. I will not get into much but I will say you statement of the money just flew out the door for whites is not even close. I applied several times for government loans, I was told twice I stood not chance to get the loan, I was not the right skin color. I bid on many state and federal projects. In the bid statements it clearly stated that minority owned companies would get priority. In fact, every bid in Texas still happens that way.
Despite my road blocks I became a self made millionaire, and you know I no longer am. I now need help, help I paid for all my life. I paid more money to Social Security than many people will make in gross salary will in their lifetimes. Yet now that I need it, I cannot get it. I have been waiting for a housing voucher for over 4 months now so I can leave this hospital/rehab. I was told I was not at the top of the list to get one despite being broke and handicapped now. I will let you guess why I help is slow in coming for me.
And once more without getting into race, have you wondered why grants go to certain races over others? Do you wonder why money is only available for minorities and woman to open a business? Look at 7-11, even McDonalds with their strict criteria will make exceptions for some to help them become franchise owners. So your argument that people are being held back is not true. Nothing is a walk in the park, no one will hand anyone the keys to the city, everyone has to put in the effort and will hit road blocks. The sucessful ones are the people who kick the road blocks down and keep going.
“I hear that Neil Bortz attitude that people who fail had choices and made the wrong ones. That is such an oversimplification and it is not fair to wrap anyone’s life up in one sentence”.
It may be an oversimplification, but it is true. Life is like climbing a mountain, when you get to the top, it is over. You start at the base and have many paths in front of you. You chose one and start to climb. Along the way you will be presented with more paths. A decision is made and the climb continues. One may stumble along the way. They get up, brush off, and continue to climb. Do you really believe we do not make the choice? Do well in school or goof around, go to college or not, to work or not.
“You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear-
I will choose Free Will.”
Rush
Joe makes a good point that the financial sector has grown as compared to GDP. Takes stocks, trading in U.S. equity (stock) markets grew from $136.0 billion or 13.1 percent of U.S. GDP in 1970, to $1.671 trillion or 28.8 percent of U.S. GDP in 1990. In 2000, trading in U.S. equity markets was $14.222 trillion, or 144.9 percent of GDP.
Simon Johnson cites the financial industry's share of domestic corporate profits:
From 1973 to 1985, the financial sector never earned more than 16 percent of domestic corporate profits. In 1986, that figure reached 19 percent. In the 1990s, it oscillated between 21 percent and 30 percent, higher than it had ever been in the postwar period. This decade, it reached 41 percent.
Similarly, Paul Krugman cites the growth of the financial sector as a percentage of GDP: in the 1960s, finance and insurance accounted for only 4% of GDP, whereas in 2007 finance and insurance accounted for 8% of GDP.
Finance is a global industry, and the U.S. financial sector provided financial services to other countries, including emerging economies, during this period. The growth of China, India, South Korea, etc., meant that the demand for financial services was growing during this time period. Moreover, it was also during this period that competition from low-wage countries like China was slowly eroding the U.S. manufacturing base. The combination of these two trends—rising demand for financial services abroad and a shrinking U.S. manufacturing sector—absolutely contributed to the U.S. financial industry's growth relative to other domestic industries.
We can domestically point to many reasons for increased financial sector. Just two quick points on this though there are many. First, Insurance is a part of the financial industry and is included in the GDP number. The sheer numbers of new policies due to growth in population and a wiser America is a contributor. Back in the 1960’s many people did not have life insurance; many states did not require car insurance. So let’s say 35% of the population had them in 1960, today 100% of car owners must have coverage and 70% of Americans have life insurance. There are also several types of insurance available today that were not available back then. A.D.D. insurance from companies like AFLAC generates revenues towards the GDP number that were nonexistent in 1960. And let’s not discount the premiums charged today due to the sheer number of lawsuits and the settlement dollars. In 1960 no one would have sued for hot coffee from McDonalds, today they will line up around the corner for the shot at becoming an instant millionaire.
The second part is the retirement system with the stock market. Aside from the many more investors there are in the stock market, retirement systems are heavy investors so they can build the portfolios of their client. The idea is to get the client the most money possible to retire on. Annuities, corporate and union’s retirement systems, 401Ks, IRAs, all contribute dollars into a market at a much larger percentage than in years past. 401Ks, IRAs and more did not even exist back in 1960.
I always say everything is relevant; the financial sector is not different. Adjust for inflation, back out all the investors and policies that did not exist back in 1960 and you will find the sector would be close to where it should be, and then add in the rest that has changed including the global market, and there is your increase to GDP. Industry growth, not greed, has contributed to the larger percentage of GDP for the financial sector.
As for the idea tax cuts do not increase revenues, let me show you a chart. The revenues for Bush’s first year was 1,853 Billion dollars. 911 happened and revenues went down and the following year was flat at 1,782 billion. At the end of that year the tax cuts were put in place. The next year the revenues went up to 1,889 billion dollars then next year jumped to 2,153 billion dollars. They rose to 2,524 billion dollars. When Obama took office, raised taxes and added regulations revenues dropped to 2,105 billion dollars and has not returned to the revenue levels under Bush. Revenues remained flat for year two but when Obama put the tax holiday in place, even though it was a small tax cut, revenues jumped to 2,302 billion dollars.
Bush
Spending
1,863
Revenues
1,853
Bush 2,011 1,782
Bush 2,160 1,782
Bush 2,293 1,889
Bush 2,472 2,153
Bush 2,655 2,406
Bush 2,729 2,569
Bush 2,983 2,524
Obama 3,518 2,105
Obama 3,457 2,167
Obama 3,601 2,302
The 1980s did see the beginning of corporate take over and went into the 1990s. Small companies were the target as some companies wanted to control their sector of the market. However, the corporate raiding, breakups, and bankruptcies we here of was not the norm. Not admitting it occurred would be false, but to state that always happened would not be an accurate reflection of history. Most of the corporate issues were accounting that occurred in the mid to late 90s. Under Clinton, there was the huge dot com growth; corporations were reporting record revenues and profits. But it all came to an end when the dot coms went bust and many corporations then admitted they cooked the books. Some companies looked for bailouts, some just went bust. One such company was ENRON. Bush took a lot of heat for that, unjustly so. ENRON looked for the Whitehouse to bail them out. Bush said no, the company had to disclose what was going on and went bust. Even respectable companies like JC Penny, Sears, Frito lay, and more all had to make “accounting adjustments” in order to get the company’s books in order and accurate. It was at this time there should have been a major overhaul in the financial sector, but it went undone. There must be accountability for these people and it should include jail time.
“th the central origins of the 2008/2009 financial crisis subprime loans and highly-complex derivative schemes which enabled the exponential growth of over leveraging of the banking sector were most likely to be used by the least knowledgeable and the most risky borrowers.”
“The value of U.S. subprime mortgages was estimated at $1.3 trillion as of March 2007” Source GAO
Well we can see if there was already 1.3 trillion dollars of subprime loans on the books, we can conclude that subprime loans did not originate in 2008-2009. The CRA that was pushed for by Barny Frank and his fellow Democrats are the origin of subprime loans. Banks were not the largest lenders during this time. Independent loan originators were taking applications from anyone who would not qualify for a mortgage. They used money from many locations, mostly investors, hedge funds and the like, mostly from Wall Street. Those loans were bundled off and bought by banks that in turn bundled them and sold them to Fannie and Freddy. The Banks, Freddie and Fannie should have rejected these bundles and let the inve
(continued)
The Banks, Freddie and Fannie should have rejected these bundles and let the investor sector take the loss. Instead we have to bail them all out. Now do not take from this that banks are innocent, they are not. They made these loans as well, just not as many. Banks, while having loosened the noose too, were still harder to get a loan from. As a home builder in the DFW area, I hardly ever used a bank for our buyers unless they were solid A paper loans. But most were either B, C, or D. I could always find a private lender for someone with C or D paper. My only criteria were the lender was not allowed to use an arm loan with my customers. An arm loan is one of the two major contributors to the housing crisis. The other is rising prices and flat salaries. I have written many times about the disparage between the cost of living increases and the lack of salary increases. If you took a home loan 3 years ago and were scraping by, you are in trouble today. Lets for argument sake say after a family pays all the bills, they have $200 per month left over. Well Gas was $1.89 per gallon then, its 3.29 now. Food has gone up anywhere from 15% to 125% depending on the product. (Should be interesting to see how far OJ goes up) Insurance has gone up, local home taxes went up, phone, electric, water, and all went up. Now the family went from $200 up to $300 short. Not enough income, something will pay the price and it is usually the house.
I could get real in depth but I do not want to write a book, though it looks like I am well on my way. There are good provocative thoughts by all that have responded including the original author. Up and awesome
George,
Thanks for coming by my friend, but I was hoping that you would go into some detail. (laughing) Well done mi amigo. Thanks for being a friend, and thanks for being a member of my tiny unpaid staff. You're good to have around the hub too. :)
I'll call you today after the football games.
Jim
Man I am overwhelmed by the postings subsequent to mine. I don't have the time to do more than skim over them right now. I am going to a playoff party but I do want to briely address A starting point for reigning in the out of control capitalism. I also want to say a few things about choices.
The first thing tha can be done is put many of our differences aside that deal with each others life styles. Let's put those issues back in the hands of the churches and free the government from adresseing issues such sexual orientation and the determination of the moment of concetion. All politicians do with those issues is use them to distract us from the issues pertinant to our financial survival. Now if we could all get on the same page about lobbyinsts and PACs I feel that we could agree that the bribary funds work against the common good. Oh yes the "COMMON GOOD". It seems to be a forgotten concept covered in the Constitution, replaced with the "SPECIAL INTEREST" which I looked but couldn't find in the Constitution. So if we collectively DEMANDED that lobbyists were outlawed along with PAC money. Money cannot be viewed a speech because freedom of speech is and equal right. Using money a speech does in fact limit some to putting no more than their two cents while others can speak millions. There are laws on the books that get ignored such as anti-trust laws and laws dealing with corporqate and political corruption. WE collectively must DEMAND that these laws be enforced and refuse to settle for the offenders to get a slap on the wrist. Stael a loaf of bread and go to jail. Steal 8 million dollars go to penal summer camp long enough to write your book...get out an get a radio talk show. These are things that we should DEMAND that our politicians talk about during their campaigns for offices that make decisions that affect our quality of life. I can elaborate on these points later but I am running out of time. It is closing in on kick off. Quickly responding to my reference to Nei Bortz using choices as the determining factor on how some ones life is directed. Americanview I have differ with you about NEil Bortzs' theory on choices governneg ones like being true. Truth must be totally true not just true if you can add exclusions. SE Neil Bortz doen't acknowledge the fact that the child that wakes up in the morning in the ghetto has much fewer and less attractive choices than the child that wakes up in a mansion. Bortz doen't mention that we are also the sum total of choices made by people before we were ever born whether they be family members or a political group or perhaps a slave master. Choices are similar to the point I made earlier about the unfairness of allowing money to be construed as speech. Both of these concepts lack equality and work against the common good. Choices can be influenced by wealth, influence and power. Choice are akin to aspirations in that to achieve your goal you have to overcome obstacles and even though some individuals have overcome many obstacles to find fame or fortune these are exceptions not the rule. Many escape the ghatto becaause of athletic abilities. Some people might have a great singing voice or a talent for acting thes are not a result of choices. Some people are in prsion because of their choices but other people who made the same choices to break the law and didn't get caught may be living the good life
. So my statemnet I believe was that it is not fair to wrap up a persons life in such a vague concept. It is very self serving for a successful person to blame a less successful person because of cchoices, hell some people have been held back in life by illness that certainly was not chosen. We can't ignore the element of chance that accompany choices. So agin I am running short on time and hope to get back to this site because I am impressed by the thinking I discovered here.
Hey Joe ,
My favorite Hendrix song by the way, and I do a fairly good job on it with my own Strat. If you don't believe me, just ask me! (laughing) Hey, we like having you around here too. Here's why .. We don't agree on quite a few things apparently, and our ideologies may be somewhat different, but we have respect for one another and a desire to communicate and find some common ground. A lot of people come into these comments sections and just argue for the sake of arguing. That's not the case here. We all want to grow, and we all want what's best for this country. I'm listening to you, George is listening to you, and you are listening back. In my life I've spent way too much time talking, and not enough time listening. That's why I know a little bit about everything but not a lot about anything. (Laughing)
I'm going to hold my comments on your last comment until you return and finish up. But I'm going to drop a link to my grassroots organization. We’re new, and were learning as we go. We're not taking donations yet because there are some legalities that have to be addressed before we file for the 501-C3 which of course allows donations to be tax-deductible. I've got someone good on it, so we’ill get there soon. About 30% of our membership, which is under 1000, is liberal. But these are some cool open-minded liberals. While I, the founder, am a so-called moderate conservative I guess, my rhetoric still gives a moderate liberal a comfortable home. We don't deal with abortion, religion, gay rights, don't ask don't tell, and things that don't pertain to the corruption that's killing this democracy. Anyway, here's the link, and I'd appreciate it if you pay us a visit when you return. I failed to mention that I've always been in love with old Henry Ford. Whatever success I've enjoyed, I got there because I was able to surround myself with smart loyal and dedicated people who make me look a lot better than I am. I'm blessed to have George for instance. The reads those 300 page bills that no one else takes the time to read, and does a beautiful job of analyzing what's there. I'm blessed with having Harlan who’s a kind decent man who understands politics and knows how to put magazines and promotions together. Finally, I'm blessed to have Mike who is a close friend with a lot of common sense and life experience. He's the guy that can keep my feet somewhere close to the ground when I get carried away. He's had more success in business than me, is a great listener, and he believes in me. You're a smart guy, yet sensitive as to people's needs. I'm just saying that I want you to visit the link, and who knows? Maybe you can bring an expertise that no one has on board, and become a member of this little family. I've got a goal of putting a huge dent in this corruption thing before I die, and I won't be denied. I'm not afraid of anything but God, my mother, and the dentist. Mom's gone now so I'm just encouraging you to get to know us.
Since I'm from Houston, you know I love those Texans, so I'm hoping for a great second half! Here's that link ..
Mw/no pants I visited your site and you had me until I viewed your video. Anyone who doesn't hold Bush/Cheney responsible for this mess has no business trying to save this nation. You don't go rabbit hunting after the fox killed all the chickens. Plus you want to enlist 6 million people at $120 a head. What do you plan on doing? Buying Washington D.C. and evicting all the politicians. Just when I started to think you were for real you go all Wall Street on me. Sorry, I went back and reread your posts and I can't pay anyone $120 to solve an Einstein size problem with an Alfred E. Neuman capacity for identifying the problem.
See here inlies the problem. People today cannot be accurate with anything. The Housefire site will be operating by DONATIONS only, there are no paid memberships. When you go to Obama's web site and he makes a suggetion for a donation, I do not see a complaint there, or when the Red Cross does the same. The point is all Non-profits need donations to stay afloat and will make a suggestion as to how much to give.
Now down to the rest. While Bush has contributed to this mess, he is FAR from alone. You must be one of those that claim the bush tax cuts bankrupted the country, despite the fact after the cuts revenues went up, the stock market rose to a record high that has not been met during the Obama administration. Revenues have dropped under Obama and despite having begun to rise, are still less than they were in Bush's last term. Bush said no to Solydra, Obama said yes. The Republicans under Bush were challenging Frank on Fannie and the housing issue, but were kept at bay by Frank and the Democrats in Congress. Under which President were the Dot Coms allowed to flourish and all the major corperations do false reporting. HMMM seems to me that was inder Clinton. And who said not to the bailout of ENRON, why that was Bush even though he gets blamed for it. Joe you can sit here all day long and spout the talking points from both sides, or you can look past it and see what really is going on. They all in Washington had a hand in this, no one is not guilty. You can keep blaming Wall Street saying how they are the top 1% or you can look at the facts which is Wall Street Financial only accounts for 14% of the 1%ers. Not too many people, is it? Executives, Managers, and Supervisors are the larget group accounting for 31% (source-GAO and CBO)
We already have an Enstien in office, based on those Harvard credentials Obama sports, perhaps it is time for Alfred E. Neuman to take over. He sure as hell could not do worse.
American View, first I want to say that I post under my own name. I don 't speak for others as your pen name (America View)insinuates that you are a voice of many. Also,the site Housfire addresses Obama presuming to represent all Americans...pretty ambitious for a site that boasts lees than 1000 people. As for this being a non-profit organiztion, I don't give to the Red Cross because even though they are non profit less tha 50% of my money gets to a chritable use.
You are right Bush alone is not responsible for the mess this country finds itself in but a little further down the page I am going to disect the sites video and show where Bush set the table for the ills of today. You agree that Bush shares some responsibility but the video quotes Bush or more than likely quotes one of his speech writers. The site hoes on to quote Lincoln attemtting to support the Iraq War as unfinished business (what a stretch). Iraq and Afghanastan have nothing to do with freedom. They are,in fact, wars that pursue and protect the interets of private interests The video goes on to warn Obama that subjugation is not a change Americans wnt or will accept. Well you accepted it for t least 6 yrs. under Bush/Cheney with the suspension of habeous corpus. Then it goes on to accuse Obama of expanding government and confounding laws. I am not an Obama fan but I am sure that it was the Bush/Cheney regime who enacted the Patriot Act, which by the way was drafted before 911, and then created Homeland Security (monster tax money siphon). Next the video faults Obama wth job destruction. That atsrted under Saint Ronald Reagan when he provided stimulous for the exporting of American factories and jobs abroad. Following this comes allegations of perverting the econmy. I contend that the economy was brought to its knees with the culmination of Bush engineering massive for Banks and Wall St. while packing his suit case and turning out the lights of the White House. I am not sure what you think Obama did to stifle free seech but I am aware that Cheney had a CIA agent outed for something her husband said. I have trouble understandind what you mena by Obama corrupting our currency. Decades of multi-billiondollar trade deficit with all of our major trade partners was enoughto bastardize our currency.
Accusing Obama of weakening our national security after finding and killing Bin Laden after Bush sacrificed thousands of American lives and billions of dollars in his unsuccessful attempts is ludicrous. If our svereignty and legal and economic institutions have been further compromised after our economic collapse under Bush I'd like to hear how and to what degree. Next line.."generational theft of opportunity" the battery in that lighthouse dimmed the future decades ago.
This last one is the most laughable of all. Policies to redistribute the wealth of the fruits of labor. That process started 30 years ago and continues with the stagnation of wages as middle calss wealth was and is siphoned upward to the wealthy.
Wow, how about this one...Patriots will not stand silent as O bama attepts to dismantle the greatest nation on earth. Gee guys why haven't we heard from you before. This nation wasn't destroyed in three short years OK now you can all prepare to hate me and attack me with your poison pens. This video ends with a referece to "American Exceptionalism". Fellas there si no such animal. God doesn't love America more than other countries. There is nothing special about our DNA and we are not the best educated people in the world. We are as devious and aggresive as any other country. We may have an exceptional history but there is nothing exceptional about our state of affairs beyond the capacity of our leaders to spend and the population propensity to consume.
Joe, I see where you have been on Hub Pages for 15 months, but in that time you have never written a hub? Before I pass judgement or form an opinion on a fellow hubber, I like to read some of their work. To read their work gives an inkling as to who they are and how they think. Other than your comments, I know nothing about you. My guess is you are pretty far left of center, but I could be wrong.
How about writing a hub and tell us a little bit about yourself?
Singing)” Hey Joe, were y0u going with that gun in your hand?” Man I love that song.
Alfred E. Newman? Shoot, I wish I was that sharp. Well buddy, your true colors come out and you are, to say the least, .. colorful. If you get my drift. After doing a little checking of your profile it looks like that although you are a member of the hub pages, you don't write hubs. Seems you are using your membership for forum hopping, and disrupting other writers work who don’t share your diluted dreams. Here’s the problem; The Hub Pages can't make any money if you don't write any hubs. So, this is your program .. You go around and rebuttal other people's work, without putting in any work yourself, or putting your own work out there to be criticized, while doing nothing to generate revenue for the dudes who sponsor this show. I've never had any respect for people like that, but hell, that's just me Joe boy. The Hub Pages is here for the purpose of letting people express themselves through words in the form of what they call .. “hubs”. See, the Hub Page organization makes its money off the advertising from our hubs. That's how it works Superman. The hub pages can do whatever they want with you, but you will be deleted here from now on, so type away.
I left business to put this nonprofit together. I work for free, as do the good folks working with me. Your sorry attempt to make my effort look cheap is just that … Cheap. We are not even taking donations right now champ, but while you’re showing off for some other geek, I’m actually making things happen. You’re an intellectual wanna be, and I’m an ass kicking Alfred E. Newman Joe. Learn it, live it. BTW. If you think that you can fight big money without any money behind you, the sky is a different color wherever it is you're at mi amigo. Here it is Joe. You met your Waterloo here . You got yourself in way over your head here, as anyone can see from the exchange above. You need a lot more motor than you have to hang in there with George. He will just keep making you look silly until you lose all desire to compete. Me? I'll just work you over personally until I destroy your will to breath. Turn me lose. and I can be a real mind fu*k dude. (laughing) Ahh .. but I quit doing that as a part of a New Years resolution so ... However! if you would like to get down and dirty, I'd be happy to do that at form outside the hub.
Like I said, this is a class joint, and I'm not going to stink it up with cheap dialog with you. No, I would suggest that you stay in the forums and play with those who have cute mantras, but no real understanding of the political process and lack the real problems and solutions skills needed to actulaay make something happen. Little people with big fingers do well in that arena, and I wish you all the luck in the world there. Too much time was wasted on you here because you started out as appearing legit. My problem.
One last thing. You said that I had you going until you looked at a video on the website. Hmmm .. So everything was cool except you didn't like the video, and came to the realization that we’ll be looking for money at some point. Right? I got it now.
On a serious note Joe, if you turn out to be one of those folks who go around down voting and flagging because people don't share your views, I'll play dirty too if this turns out to be the case. This has recently been recognized as a problem, and a group of us are placing this, as a legal issue, in front of the Hub Pages as it can affect personal income from AdSense, and so on, not to mention Hub Page revenue. The Hub Pages pride themselves on running a clean, first-class show. They will not tolerate being used in the manner in which you are using them. I'm not going to report you, unless numbers start tanking. The stats on this hub have been outstanding, but show a downturn beginning on the day you came into the comments section here, which makes you look very suspicious. This is a clean hub, if it gets flagged, I'll know who did it. Play safely.
Joe,
A typical left argument. Your assertion that I speak for many based on my name is laughable. Fist, if it was the view of many people it would say American VIEWS, plural and not American View. Second, if you read any of my articles and see how I end the article or listened to my show you would know how I sign off. I say “this is my American View, what is yours?” People should not assume… well you know the rest.
There is another reason I do not give my full name(and how do we know the name you are using is really yours). I was a NY firefighter for 15 years and yes I was at ground zero on 911. There are many who hound us firefighters who were at ground zero, so I keep a low profile. If you were In my shoes you would understand.
Look, there is no point in having a discussion with you. It is all Bush’s fault and that is all you see. Perfect example:
“Well you accepted it for t least 6 yrs. under Bush/Cheney with the suspension of habeous corpus. Then it goes on to accuse Obama of expanding government and confounding laws.”
First, cite me why Americans lost their habeous corpus rights. Do you really believe Obama did not expand Government? If not, where have you been. Just Obamacare alone added thousand of governmental jobs in the IRS to attempt to run it, and that is only one part. Did Bush create and enacted the Patriot act, dam right and Obama continued it. Have you ever read it? No you did not, I have and it was created in response to our time. Only truthers believe the patriot act was written before 911.
Joe, do you read anything on current events or are you strictly reading and following Democratic talking points. It is a long known fact that Cheney, Rove or Libby did not out Valerie Plane as a CIA agent, which by the way she wasn’t. And let’s not forget all the evidence that came out that the husband made up the allegations he published. Do you remember who came forward under oath to Congress and admitted he was the one that outted Plane? Let me help you, Robert Novak.
Do you Think finding Bin Laden created a stronger national security? Really, I guess the intelligence community that was looking for him for years had nothing to do with it, and I guess seal team six had nothing to do with it. How soon we forget that it took Obama a week of being scolded by the joint chiefs before giving in and giving the OK because he was against it. Show me where Obama has done anything that made national security safer. Hell, he even did not follow through with the last round of sanctions against Iran.
As far as your challenge about poison pens, you have not been around me long enough to know I do not enter such stupidity. On the other hand I cannot say the same for the left. I find it sad you do not believe in American excetionalism, for it did exist but now is tarnished by this President. You claim “God doesn't love America more than other countries.” Well that is true since there is no God. Before you go off on that, I am the only one here that has that point of view. It is obvious to me we will have to agree to disagree.
Man w/ no pants anmd george. Yes I ahd signed up 15 months ago. But i got involved in a project and didn't follow up. I never bothered to learn how to start my own hub. Recently I started visiting hubs popping up on my e-mail but if you checked on me you will see that I never voted anyone down or did anything but respond to posts. I kinda thought that this hub thing is an exchange of opinions. If you really want to delete mu responses thats fine but I can only assume that you don't like criticism because I ahve done nothing to sabotage your site. I will attempt to establish my own hub and you will be invited to criticize my posts.
Oldpoolman I am independent and I left the democrat party years ago because they were too far left for me but can't be a republican because they are too far right. I feel that too much rigidity causes even bridges to collapse. You are welcomed to ask me any questions to evaluate where I fall on your scale of left-right. several years ago I had my own editorial page in a local newspaper and got as many viscious response from the left as I did from the right. If you could walk me thru the process of starting my own hub I will post often enough for you to evalusate my politial position. My position on superpacs is that they are superdangerous sorry if that offended you guys. I do hope that you check out my activity and see that I have done nothing to negatively affect your hub. Though I have been registered for many months you will see that I have only visiting hub site for a limited time
Holy Mad Magazine Batman!
I didn't notice old Joe's last paragraph. Nothing special about America? Wow! I think I can make a very compelling case for the fact that this is the greatest nation on the planet despite our problems. Let's look at that last paragraph by our friend Joe.
"God doesn't love America more than other countries. There is nothing special about our DNA and we are not the best educated people in the world. We are as devious and aggresive as any other country. We may have an exceptional history but there is nothing exceptional about our state of affairs beyond the capacity of our leaders to spend and the population propensity to consume."
Joe, you may not think America's very special, but I think you're special. Very, very special. I was going under the assumption that you are an American. That said Joe, you're outta here.
Mw/no pants I just reread ur response and I have to ask you were you challenging me to meet u outside this forum. I think it is a bit childish but I have no problem revisiting those days. This is my real name, If you wanted to have lunch or meet on the playground I could e-mail directions to where I can be found. I am ssure I must be reading something into your comment and I hope I did but if not I am very accomadating.
After having a second thought, I won't delete Joe's comments. I'm sure we'd all love to hear his anti-American comments. I've been more or less kidding around, but after hearing his comments about our country, this honestly makes me a little queasy.
Joe,
I was referring to e-mails. But listen to me my friend. you can write this off as BS if you want, but I'm the real deal. I don't know anything about your capabilities, but I will tell you this. You'd better have some very specialized training before you start running your mouth with me. I'm not gonna screw around with you anymore. You want to do something, drop me a hub mail, and we can make some arrangements. I'll delete the mail as soon as I read it, we'll just keep it between you and me.The future is yours my friend. Just let me know.
Joe is right. You guys claim to be independent, but show love for the worst righty's in the world for a lefty. Bashing Obama is what it's all about. Blaming him, and letting the policies that got us here off the hook: So they can come back!
Bush 4: The Steroids.
So I guess being Independent requires us to be a fan of Obama and ignore his faults right? That doesn't sound very independent to me. It looks like to me that in your book you can only lean left to be an independent. Okay, if that's what you think, that's what you think, but let's get back to subject.
Jim
Joe,
I could care less what the reason is as to why you signed up for HP, we all have different reasons. Writing an article is up to you, if you want to, on the header of your profile page is a button that says start a hub. Hit it and just fill in the blanks.
I enjoy criticism. Please feel free to visit any and all of my articles. Despite Lovemychris view,I believe you will find my articles are independent, she is just upset I can show factual fault in Obama. Funny thing is she is silent and I never hear from her when I critisize Bush or the right. If you vote an article down, if that is your true honest opinion, I am fine with that. I do not censor or delete comments.
You are not offending me with your view on Super PACs because I bellieve thay need to go as well. I just wrote an article on changing Presidential elections that has a way to keep them at bay since we cannot legally eliminate them. (Source-Citizens United vs FEC Supreme Court decision)
Hey fellas, stop the self-serving name calling and get America back to work! :)
Independent means not being partial to one side!
Which none of you seem to be. You seem to be right-wingers.
Not one of you speak about Bush with personal derision. It's most of what you guys do on Obama. Personal derision.
It's a ploy IMO. "Hey I'm fair and balanced, but you know those Dems are the worst."....etc etc
Sorry storyteller. If you look, I did my best to treat Joe with respect, then he turned around and spit on me. I welcomed him on board, and instead of saying that he appreciated the offer, but it just didn't look like a thing for him, he starts with the insults. I'm really tried to mellow out, and I've been letting a lot of things go that I normally wouldn't have. But this is my house, and while I don't ask anyone to agree with me, I do demand that they show respect and have manners. I'm working on just ignoring these things, but it goes against my nature, and will take a while. I think the world of you, and don't enjoy disappointing you, so stay with me kiddo!
Jim
Look I don't know why anyone thinks I am in Obamas' court. I think he is the biggest do nothing president in history but he has had help in doing nothing from both side of the aisle. I don't defend Obama but it makes no sense to me to blame him for this mess beyond his ability or refusal to address the most serious time in history. I am an independent I can and do vote for a person not a party. When I see obstacles to good government I won't defend them because of their party affiliation. I couldn't defend Pelosi if she was an inependent and my sister but then I look accross teh aisle at Beoner in the other house who is not as bad as her but is also an inside trader and a foot dragger in Congress. I won't apologize for my take on Bush/Cheney because they made Haliburton extraordinarily wealthy while emptyin the treasury.American View I find you to be a gentleman even in the face of my criticism. Thank you for the help I do intend to start my own Hub where all criticisms are welcomed. I didn't go from democrat to independent without listening to crticism and being open to adifferent view. I realize my writing style may be abrasive but if we sat down to a beer or six pack or so I would venture to say that we would spend more time laughing than arguing politics.
Mw/no pants if I did naything to jeopardize the ability of your hub to make monmey I apaologize. I never attemted to vote up or down or any other maneuver to negatively impact your site. Sorry that I can't apologize for anything I have written. My view on exeptionalism is that it is like Hannity calling someone great American it doesn't make it so. As for meeting at a predermined site I think it is childish but I have never backed down from anything in my life and when I do which I doubt will ever happen it surely won't be for exercising one of my freedoms. I noticed your picture above and you do have impressive guns and I do have a decade or so on you but Time in a gym never made anyone impervious. I am 64 and would never think about bringing a muffin to a steak fry and on the other hand would not exercise my right to carry a gun over a political debate. But, if you are that driven by my words I am going to include my e-mail and if you feel the need to meet me face to face for whatever reason we can talk further by e-mail joescalise47@gmail.com. This an e-mail that I set up for our exchange in case anyone else would want to use it to harrass me it will be deleted within the week.Since I was able to read these last comments I guess I am not yet tossed from this hub if so I will say that it was enjoyable nonetheless.
LMC,
You know how I feel about Bush. We've had this discussion before, and you know I didn't like Bush and immigration, Bush and Iraq, and Bush spending. Yes, I blame him, and he had a Democratically controlled Congress to work with for the last two years?. I'm just sick of Obama blaming Bush for his lack of production for the two years while he himself had a democratically controlled Congress. This guy is a man, not a little boy. He applied for the job of running the highest office in the land. If the jobs too big, he shouldn't have taken it. If your one thinks he's doing a pretty good job, then why the need to mention George Bush and Barack Obama in the same sentence. Listen man, I don't know how I can be more fair. People should vote for who they personally think will do the best job. Why is it so important that we have to agree on the same guy? I don't run Obama down. I think he's a nice guy and a good father. Should I vote for him if I don't think he's the man for the job in 2012? Should you have to vote for a Republican that you don't think is right for the job? Come on man, let's just shut up and vote. Last I knew, people didn't have to agree on their politics in order to be friends. I dunno, maybe this is the line in the sand for some people, but not me. Now for the last time, this hub is not about Barack Obama, OR George Bush. If folks don't start respecting the fact that I've asked him them to the stay on subject, I'm going to have to get stupid and delete comments. Once again, please stay on the subject. I'm writing a hub about what it means to be an independent which you sort of inspired. I'm going to get into why I'm not voting for Mr. Obama there, and you can jump all over it. But I won't be doing any bashing, just giving my reasons and how I came up my reasons more or less.
Have a good one,
Jim
Joe,
I just never know which Joe was going to show up. There is a Joe that makes insulting remarks out of nowhere, and the Joe that makes a lot of sense. I'm done trying to figure it out. Yes I do take very good care of myself, and I can be a nasty one, but 64 is the new 44, and I wouldn't discount you one bit. Besides, us old guys can usually figure out how to equalize a situation. (laughing) No, I honestly hope that we miss read each other. I'd never look forward to going back down some old roads I've tried to put behind me. Anyway, best of luck.
Jim
Here is an article that will rile you all up! It reminded me of Jim's list above...
LMC - Every line has two ends with the extremes being right there at the end of the line. Most of us fall somewhere other than at the extreme ends of the line. Some fall left of center and some fall right of center. A very few fall dead center on this line. Personally, I like some of things right of center, but I also like some of the things left of center. To close your mind and refuse to even look at what is past the center of the line is where many go wrong. There are many good, and many bad, ideas from both sides of center. If they would stop fighting like little children and at least listen to others ideas, we might possibly come up with a few solutions to our problems.
storytellers, that link just opens up a can of worms kiddo. You are my friend, and I tread lightly when it comes to politics with my friend's. There's just too many cool things to choose from with you, and politics are of little importance between friends. :)
Jim
JIm. I swear that I am not bi-polar. When discussing politics it is easy to get a bit rude at times but you make a valid point. This is your house and I should respect that. I probably should reread before I post and not only on your hub but other houses I visit. Making a point venomously adds nothing to the debate, Something I knew before this moment. I am involved in other sites where it seems whoever can give the most vitriolic response wins. As to my aggresive behavior like you for the most part I have been in great shape and didn't tolerate someone bad mouthing me. From my twenties to my forties I lived in Vegas and worked 7pm to 3am I played racket ball before and after work and worked out on a heavy bag. In my mid forties I moved back to my home town and worked heavy construction. At age 50 fell from a roof 20ft and incurred a double compound fracture of my left tibia. Thirteen surgeries and 6yrs ( 3 of which were swimming daily to rehab)I made a near complete recovery. Three years ago I had two younger men attempt to steal my Grand Am with me in it. I happened to have my cane that I used in bad weather with me and managed to repel them after I had taken a pretty good beating. I got a license to carry my 9mm and vowed never to take another beating but I can only see me shooting anyone if my family, friends, myself or my property were at risk. If it came down to a political difference I would only fight if necessary and couldn't shoot someone unless my life was threatened. I am sure you would have posed a dynamic threat but I am also sure that the cconfrontation would be demeaning to us both. I am even a bit embarrassed to have showed my school kid exchange in front of the other guests to your site. Because of your tolerance and not booting me from the site I will reread my posts and no matter how much I oppose anyones position or how adamant I am about my own position I will respect your house.
Joe,
Your total gentleman, and it's all good friend. I didn't figure you to be a slouch, and I'm sorry to hear about your accident. It can happen to any of us at any time. Joe, I played a lot of football, been through two major car accidents, and this old body has been through a lot too. I'm fortunate to be as healthy as I am, and I thank God for every day. Like you, I am about a B plus racquetball player, I run 2 miles a day, and work out 5 to 6 days a week lifting. That's the good news. The bad news is that it hurts a lot sometimes to get less work done due to arthritis and some of those old bones that got busted up in football. There are a lot of things that I can't do anymore. Something I found Joe, is that if you could kick ass when you were young you can kick ass when you're old. You just have to make adjustments. (laughing) In Houston I guy tried to yank my mother's purse out of her hand as she sat in her car at a gas station. She beat him with her cane until he finally gave up and jumped on his bicycle and sped away. Mom threw the car in gear and when after him. She never caught him, but my aunt asked her what she planned on doing if she did catch him. She said that she was going to run him over with her car because she was too old to fight him straight up. Mom was a tiger for sure. So you never quit kicking ass, you just get more creative.
I know people get pretty wound up about their politics. I just don't spend a lot of time blaming one particular side or the other, because I see something that apparently most folks don't see, and that were all getting screwed by both sides in Washington. I have my opinions, but I just don't find it to be a problem if someone else has a different opinion. I'm very competitive, so much so that it times it's not a good thing, and spills over into areas that shouldn't, so I have to be on guard less I over react, and act like a fool myself.(as seen above)
Thanks for coming back. I look forward to your opinions. You're a smart dude, and even if I don't always agree with you, I can learn. I've been in business for myself most of my life, and my background is in marketing, but I'm new to politics. I'm learning fast, but I've got a long ways to go in order to accomplish what I plan on pulling off. I'm writing a new hub about what it means to be a an Independent, with some other stuff in it. I'd like you to weigh in when I get it published. You'll disagree with some of it, and agree with some of it I imagine. It'll be interesting to see where you're at on this new hub. It looks like to me that you and I agree on a lot of the basics. You say a lot of things that make me say to myself "Rght on, that's me too!" See I'm not a real big "whodunit guy." I really don't give a shit, I just want to solve problems, and keep them from repeating. Our system is a great system, but it's had the crap kicked out of it through years of narcissistic leadership. Never mind, I'm rambling .. Guess I'll hit the sack. Look forward to talking to you bro!
Jim
Jim and Joe,
Ok enough of the scene from Jaws where the dudes try to outdo each other’s scars. While it can be a funny pissing contest to watch, I promise I can beat you both. LOL :)
Storyteller,
I know you have read a number of my articles and I am pretty sure you know my two pet peeves. One is someone who spouts of material and tries to present it as fact and will stick by it despite being show it was inaccurate, and those who write attacks without even knowing the facts. Like when someone is asked do they like fish, the reply is they hate it. Then I ask did they try it and they reply no. Well how the hell do you know you hate fish without trying it? I am not talking about you Story in case it came across that way. If it did I apologize.
Now the link you provided me does indeed rile me up but not because of the article which cannot be proven yet, but because it falls completely into my pet peeve category. We all know Romney has not released his tax returns yet. On a personal note, not doing so tells me he has something he does not want us to see. Releasing them later will only make it worse. Anyway back to the article. The first sentence of the article sets it all up:
“Mitt Romney probably pays a lower percentage of Federal income tax than you do.”
Probably, well that says it all. He is guessing for the rest of the article. First he writes that people making $35,000 pay a tax rate of 25%. Let me point out that is false, they pay 15%. So the writer is now 0-2. He next claims 1470 people who made 1 million dollars or more last year did not pay taxes. Now I do not have the time to research that, but I can tell you that is less than 10% of those who made over a million dollars a year and the national average of households not paying taxes is 50%. So if he was trying to prove the rich do not pay taxes, he failed and now is 0-3. And last, the writer claims:
“Romney's worth $250 million. Let's see: What would Mitt Romney's proper tax contribution on that money -- just Mitt's, nobody else's -- have provided for the nation that has given him so much? Taxing Romney under the same rules most of us follow would have put something in the neighborhood of $61 million more into the US Treasury”
I will take him at his word that Romney is worth 250 million dollars. I do not have the time to look it up and is a mute point to the discussion. See, you do not get taxed on NET WORTH, you get taxed on income, and since Romney has not released his tax return, guessing what his income is would be mundane. This writer is now 0-4. This article does nothing but to promote hatred and fill minds with false information. Campaign for America should be ashamed of themselves for being so unprofessional and printing such an article.
LMC,
It is time for a new record. It is interesting that when one even says O you are there to say we are on the right, but when I write about Bush, Boehner, or anyone else on the right, you never make a comment. It is real old now.
I don't know George. I've never known a body who has as many scars as me. I'm one of those guys who can't take out the trash without requiring three stitches. (laughing)
jim
izetti, Those who want access to wealth are living in dreamland?????? Who instilled such horrible thoughts in your mind?? Do you live in Cuba or Moscow? Does the owner of Facebook think like you? Did Apple Steve think like you? Did Billionaire owner of Best Buy who didn't get a paycheck for the first 11 years think like you?
Stop thinking garbage! And for the record most wealthy work till they die! They got wealthy through work ethic and ambition in the first place! Look at TBoon Pickens, in his 70s! Look at Trump in his 60s, Look at Warren Buffet in his 80s, I believe! and of course Mr. Burns that runs the nuclear plant, he is over 140!!! LOL!
AR
What you thought sis meant wasn't what she meant. I went back and looked at the end of her comment, and I can see why you would take it the way you did, but again that's not what she meant. When she was talking about wealth, she was referring to the fact that the wealthy aren't going to give all their money to these bums so that they can live the high life without putting any effort. She loves this country, and is aware of the opportunities that our free enterprise system offers. Trust me on this one. We've spent hours and hours on the subject. No comments on the hub??
jim
Wait... we are not allowed to get off topic. Seriously... where is the fun in that ;) Ha ha - sorry couldn't resist... and I promise you that isn't the only thing that I took from this hub.
First off, I am feeling a little sick to my stomach. Seriously... you bankrupted all those companies, took and murdered all the millionaires and still couldn't pay the bills. That is just gross and sickening. While I do think some of these professions make more than it is actually worth while others work harder and barely make it, I do think it is time we stop picking on the guy who made his money from the hard work. Sure - they will pay more in taxes because they have more of a pool to begin with. Yet, that being said... I think the true issue is the lack of money management skills by those managing our money. Since when did our government get a credit card that they could spend without really thinking it through. As a housewife... I got to stay within my budget... they should do. That is just the scary and sad reality of that. That also means taxes need to be raised and programs and assistance need to be cut. but, I already hear the screams... THATS NOT FAIR... of course not, but that is life and we can't continue to spend money that we don't have!
I noticed up the list that storyteller wants a government watchdog over media? Not being critical but that is interesting since this was never thought of until Rush and FOX, BAck when libs dominated the airways no one ever thought to question ole Cronkite about his bias lying ways!
I didn't even catch that to be honest AR. I need to go back and re read. Nute is making that biased media nervous lol
jim
53joe scalise says
t
The media steers the left and the right.. The aim of the media is polarization.
If the media sheds the light in the wrong direction both sides remain in the dark and if they keep us asking the wrong questions the answers don't matter. If each side didn't have media that was biased to there view we would have already had a revolution or a civil war. The media no longer provides news they provide opinion. That is why you see talk show hosts working as news commentators.
Joe,
If you follow my work, you know that this is something I've been preaching for a long time. Nothing substitutes for hard work, and independent research when it comes to forming an opinion.
Thanks for stopping by!
Jim
As I read this, I 'saw' how many Americans are already bleeding ~ In my case, I was a home-owner, debt-free (except for the mortgage) with five figures in my 401k and growing. After the crash, job loss, cashing in my 401k (before it disappeared) to pay off my car and sustain the mortgage and medical premiums until the next job...which didn't come for over a year...then, making thousands a year less than before, causing me to short-sell my home and become a renter again...now, I'm four figures in the red, fighting to get debt-free again. Seeing I'm another "$46,000" in debt just made me feel so much better......NOT. And, my grand-children (ages 4 mos; 1 and 3 years old) that had NOTHING to do with this crisis, are already upside-down 'millionnaires'. Oh, that we can turn this thing around!!
Judah's Daughter,
I can identify. I found myself in a position of almost having to start over from scratch due to the housing market, and a boo-boo on my own part. Having a lot or having a little isn't the big thing with me, rather, the opportunity to have a lot. That's why instead of going back into business, I started the Housefire Project. I want to protect and preserve the opportunity that I had for my children and grandchildren.
Thank you for coming by taking the time to lay out your feelings. Hope to hear more from you.
Jim
Astute as always, and I too try and look at everything with an open mind. I think this state that we're in where everything the other side is simply called wrong (and this happens on both sides) is disconcerting at best, and counterproductive at most. We have a two party system, and love it or hate it, it's what we have, and as such it should be like having two thinking, rational people sit down at a table and discuss their thoughts, lay out their arguments civilly, and be able to come somewhere in the middle of where both sides want to be. That's clearly not what's happening. Instead we've got ears being plugged, and both sides are standing firmly on the idea that it's all or nothing. This is my plan, take it or leave it.
As for this whole notion of attacking the rich? That's something I just can't, for the life of me, figure out. It goes against every single thing that has made this country successful. What is the point of living in a land of opportunity if once you've reached any level of success, and actually REALIZED that opportunity, that everything is expected to be taken away from you?
What the left fails to understand (and pardon me breaking your rule slightly in using that term here) is that the rich make that opportunity that we're supposed to have viable, because obviously we all need to work to make money to fuel the means to whatever opportunity we might have. People work, they invest and save, and hopefully one day they get to be in the big chair themselves through hard work, perseverence, and sound financial judgement.
I liked what Newt said in a recent debate, and I think he hit the nail square on the head with what he said, "I'm going to help poor people learn how to get a job, learn how to get a better job, and learn someday to own the job." That's what this country is about, and it's the core value in affording ONESELF opportunity. Giving handouts doesn't get that done. Neither does taking from the rich who have done these things who provide those jobs which are the real pathway to prosperity.
Springboard,
Thanks for coming by and giving this a thorough read, then following up with your well thought out comments. If you are a member of my organization, or if you've been following my work, you know, I'm all about getting smart liberals and smart conservatives together. There is no other way. Society has this sort of unspoken rule that you must fall into a category. There is no such rule, but unfortunately smart liberals and smart conservatives feel that they have to fall in line with their constituents on both sides, regardless of how radically left or right, they may be. Hopefully the Housefire Project will have an impact on that problem.
This notion that the middle class is being squeezed out by the rich is deadly propaganda. If people would do their research, they would find that, yes, the rich are getting richer, but the poor are getting richer too. I have a stepson who is 27 years old, lives at home, hasn't worked a total of four months in 10 years and sits at home playing video games. He has a daughter (2 yrars old) who lives with us also. (I love her like crazy) He collects food stamps, cash assistance,WICK, and has free health insurance. He's getting ready to collect child-support from the baby's mother and will get an earned income credit, giving him thousands of dollars when he only worked for less than two months in 2011. My wife, with the help of our government, has ruined this boy. I raised my kids to be independent and work hard. My wife is a great woman, and this is the only negative thing about her, but this goes against everything I stand for. Drives me nuts. What's going on over there across the hall from me is what's causing the middle class to shrink. We are witnessing the pusyfication of America, and we'd better clean up the foul attitude that is starting to smother this country.
Thank you once again for coming by and commenting my friend.
Jim
Sorry to hear about your son, but he is definitely illustrative of a mindset that is rampant in most welfare recipients—and that is, there really isn't any real interest in getting off the dole. They are happy to just ease by through life, looking at every turn for every opportunity to get more for nothing. And that, to my mind, is one of the biggest problems with most welfare and food stamp programs is that it's too easy to STAY on the dole, and there really is no incentive, nor really any encouragement by the government to get people OFF the dole. If the gravy train were to suddenly just stop at some point, in other words if the government put strict limits on how long a person can collect, and HOW MUCH, with benefits graduating downward even, the longer one stays on the dole, I'm sure there'd be more inclination by recipients to start looking for ways to generate their own means.
There was a report recently put out here in Milwaukee that the black unemployment rate is currently somewhere around 55%, and one of our local radio talking heads (who sometimes also sits in for Rush Limbaugh), Mark Belling, very poignantly pointed out that it's not necessarily a lack of work available in the black community here in Milwaukee, it's a lack of willingness on the part of the black community to do the menial jobs that could one day lead to more meaningful jobs. The thought is, these lower paying jobs in convenience stores and working in restaurant kitchens might be crappy, they may pay lousy wages, they may provide little if any benefits at all, BUT they are the stepping stone. And again it seems to work right into Newt's comment as well that you have to start somewhere. We ALL start at the bottom, and we all have to accept that we HAVE TO start at the bottom and work our way up.
Those restaurant positions by the way in the Milwaukee area, and I'm sure this is the case in other places as well, are largely occupied by hispanics. So, the jobs are there, it's just a matter of someone choosing not to take them.
You know, the whole thing sort of also reminds me of where the housing market was for a while, and where the mindset of an entire generation is. It's the "I want it now" generation I'm referring to. The big title, the big paycheck, the big house, and the fancy car. For a while people were able to do that, to come right into the world with all the goodies, unlike our fathers and our grandfathers who had to work for everything they had, and who did crap jobs when they started out and worked they way eventually into better jobs, and then could afford the bigger and better houses, fancier cars etcetera.
I should point out how many of US probably started working at 13 and 14 and never stopped, and how many kids nowadays don't work at all—and how many kids are already picky about the KIND of work they are willing to do. When I hear a 16 year old proclaim that working in a fast food joint is beneath them I find myself scratching my head. At 16 you're not looking to make a living. You're looking to build a work ethic.
Springboard,
I'm going to give a very short response to your last comment. You could do a copy paste of this comment and make a four star hub out of it. In my opinion.
Jim
A well appreciated comment. Thanks.
Springboard, as an employer, I can tell you honestly that even with the high rate of unemployment, people don't come to interview when jobs are posted. For my last opening, I listed the job with State Unemployment, the Veterans Unemployment section, and everywhere I could think of. But then I had also made the mistake of stating they must be able to pass a drug screen which may have reduced the numbers. Now Tucson proper has a population over 1 Million people, and I could find no applicants for a job that pays a minimum of $20 per hour. I for one am tired of hearing about the high level of unemployment because it is more about people not wanting to work. Not everyone can start off as the CEO of most companies. I did get a guy in Louisiana who was desperate for a job, and sent him gas money to get here. He was very happy to find employment.
I see your still kicking butt:) i have missed your no nonsense approach and impeccable humor. In this country we have a shrinking middle class and longer lines at the food banks, its understandable that the 1% has become demonized. How is it that one mans office curtains cost more than another can make in a year working 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs? You are so right that many rich people have gotten up earlier and worked harder and deserve to be in the 1%. However, let us not demonize the poor. Many poor people wake up before dawn and smell of poo when they drag themselves in at the end of the day and will never earn in their lifetime what one man in the 1%earns in a year. Its the gap, it's too wide, and it swallows the American Dream. I agree regulations shouldn't strangle competition but are necessary not only to keep the wealthy in check but to protect this beautiful earth we are destroying.And taxes need to be fair. Romney paid something like 15%, we pay 30%and we make under 100,000 a year, that's just wrong, it's bad math. We should not demonize the rich but we must remember, to whom much is given much is required:) As always, fantastic read, I have missed you much!
Tammy,
You make such excellent points. I come from poverty, and have much empathy for those who struggle. It's a difficult thing holding those accountable who can produce without hurting those who can not. I'm so glad to see you again my friend!
jim
Jim, it was only after I was middle aged that I realized how poor we were when I was a child. There was always something to eat on our table even if it was just a pan of cornbread right out of the oven. To this very day, some of my favorite foods are what I would classify as "poor folk" food. I have great empathy for everyone who struggles so hard. I have no empathy for those who will not even try.
Mike ..
AMEN!
jim
Old Poolman, I have missed you as well, feels like a family reunion,lol:) cornbread and beans is to this very day my all time favorite meal. I agree with you fully, i have no empathy for those who do not try. You know I believe people that dwell at the bottom of society as a choice probably are the same people who do not vote or pay taxes. I have this theory that self destructive people eliminate themselves.
(standing and clapping while nodding my head in approval)
:)
Throughout history there have been those who were lazy there were those who preffered to rob those who did try and there were also those who oppressed and attempred to keep the masses poor. America didn't fall far that tree. We have all the same attributes with a certain sophistication due to so-called prosperity. As a nation America has prospered but we didn't attempt to steer much of this capitalistic wealth toward the function of enhancing the common good. Disparity in incomes has weakened a desire to enhance the common good because the government mistakenly thought that welfare without serious work and educational motivation was looking out for the common good. America failed to create a system of education that prepares people to establish a work ethic, a fundamental grasp on functioning within a family and the tools for money management. And ethics seemed to stand in the way of creaating wealth.
Capitalism, which I admit has made America the icon of financial success has also produced social inequality by defining success as the accumulation of wealth. It has also lead to oppression of the masses because capitalism places little value on hard work at the production level. The only recognition for hard earned money goes to investors and upper management. This is no different than the dark ages. This is brought about by the claim that America cannot compete with countries who pay slave wages, use children in factories pollute their environments and subsidize their industries but in truth corporate America has sponsored these foreign endeavors by exporting our manufacturing and associated jobs. We don't need to crush capitalism but it is need of a serious realignment.
Suggestions Joe?
Jim. it's a tough bell to unring. But we have seen what happens when th SEC refuses to enforce the law. We can't continue to let Wall St. and the banks go unbridled. Also the blood,sweat and tears of the American work force needs to be able to keep pace with with income growth. Wages remain stagnent while salaries and bonuses of upper management skyrocket. Corporate criminals need to go to jails. When our economy was sabotaged not one banker or Wall St manipulater went to jail. Bernie Madoff was a renegade and doesn't represent the wholesale problem of corruption on Wall St. The population of this country on a whole are not sufficiently educated to become a functional asset to capitalism and the majority are only qualified to be caddies on the economic golf course. There nust be incentives given to keep our manufacturing domestic. And corporations who hire illegals should face monstrous fine and even jail time for hiring illegal aliens. The major change is to eliminate lobbyists and take away the staatus of human being from corporations. I am sure that there are more intelligent people than I who could provide a better outline for reducing the mercenary practices that has limited the American Dream.
Joe,
I am 100% on board with busting the Wall Street bankers. The failed banks that took billions in bailouts, then paid executives huge bonuses should be prosecuted and made an example of.
I want to make a couple of points. I think it is a mistake when people lump all wealthy people together with these pigs. I think it is a mistake for the American people to think that they can arbitrarily raise taxes on the wealthy without forcing our government to stop the waste, fraud and abuse which amounts to almost $1 trillion a year. Wealthy people didn't get wealthy or remain wealthy by wasting money. This top 10% pay 70% of the taxes, while 50% of Americans pay no taxes. Over 90% of that 50% are people earning wages between 25 and $35,000 a year. 46% of the lowest 20% of wage earners moved up in earnings, while 34% of the top 10% of wage earners moved down last year. I only mention these things to keep things in perspective. Again, I agree 100% with prosecuting criminals and closing tax loopholes which allow people to escape paying what they owe. These things actually make my blood boil.
My organization's, eight initiatives are designed to keep corporate money out of the pockets of politicians. We will never stop greed, we can only manage it, and the only way were going to manage it is with clean leadership. Fouled leadership is what allows the corrupt corporate dots to connect.
To sum it up, most wealthy Americans are people who work hard. They earn their money. There is a small, not tiny, but small percentage of these wealthy people who are nothing short of criminal. These criminals should be treated as criminals and not businesspeople, but it is a mistake to lump them in with the rest of wealthy Americans who pay most of the taxes. If people continue to demonize the good guys in this group, they will pay us a severe price.
Thank you for returning to comment. I think we agree on more than we disagree on.
Jim
Jim, I think we reached a concesus because I agree 100% WITH WHAT YOU JUST WROTE I think there may be hope for this country but the youth of this country have to pick up the banner although I don't believe that we have prepared them for the fight ahead. Maube it is our fault that we spoiled our children with instant gratification and a watered down work ethic (I know this is a generalization because there are some with good work ethics but) overall this cou ntry has lost what was fought for by the sacrifices of my parents and grandparents. At my age the best I can do is rally behind a youthful movement. The older we get the further removed we become from moulding our culture.
Joe,
I'm no spring chicken myself. The only thing we can do is fight the good fight and give it 100%. The worst thing that can happen to me is to look back when I'm on my death bed knowing that I didn't give it my best shot. In October my organization will be shaking some things up. One thing I can promise is that we'll give America an attitude adjustment.
jim
Jim, my initial impression of you was so far out of bounds. Back in the day you and I would have been a pair to reckon with. I will go to my grave knowing I never gave up I just wish I was younger and be a part of the change that can save this country. I may live long enuf to see the start. I just hope I have my faculties to appreciate it.
I misjudged you also Joe. We’re in uncharted territory when it comes to the problems that were facing this country. Passions run high.. Sometimes folks don’t take enough time to listen to one another. the way they should.
You’re not too old Joe. You just be the brains, and let us ego charged half brains do the fighting. It’s all attitude. America just needs a good swift kick in the pants to remind ourselves of who we really are.
jim
I can't find it logical or good for the country to ball and chain the rich in a redistribution of wealth or overburdening them with taxes to help others. Why work hard towards your dreams if big brother is going to tell you what you can and can't do with your money? Charity should be left to non-profits and individual choice. Business should be something the gov't doesn't take part in. Smaller gov't is the way to go.
Express,
We are in complete agreement. Thank you for the read and the supportive comment.
jim
Josak Level 6 Commenter 4 months ago
Its an interesting point, having said that its a start right? obviously though we need to fix the spending problems too.